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'74 Ventura GTOs
My son and I are hunting for a project car for his senior year in auto shop. We've been looking at 3rd gen F-bodies (Z28s, GTAs and Formulas), but a '74 Ventura popped up that looks like a potential prospect. It appears to be a GTO, but I haven't verified.
These have never called to me, but he loves these cars. What should I know about them? I assume there's a lot of Nova overlap. What are the gotchas, unique parts or trouble areas? We're going to try to go take a look this week. |
Cool project. If it's solid and something you want to pusue - go for it.
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The biggest issues I've seen have been availability of Ventura-specific parts such as the tail panel and the trunk floor. Obviously, Nova tail panels are different, and I've never seen a reproduction of the tail panel or trunk floor (the repro trunk floor is 68-72 Nova). As you mentioned, a lot of parts interchange with the Nova. For some reason, steering components (tie rods, center link, etc.) are different and more expensive than the Nova, but I'm told if you swap the whole setup you can use Nova stuff.
Overall, parts are available, and they're easy cars to work on. The best change you can make is to replace the 350 with a 455! Importsmasher |
It’s like building a Firebird with a slightly longer wheelbase, the front subframe is basically identical to the first-gen cars, pretty sure after that year they used the second-gen front steer subframe.
Nice lightweight platform with tons of aftermarket support, they’re underrated and very nice looking cars. |
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The ultimate point is more power is great lol. Importsmasher |
This one has a 4 speed and what looks to be the original 350. All the GTO-specific parts are there. If it’s a California car, it’s likely pretty solid. The suspension, chassis and engine were recently gone through. It’s been gutted in prep for paint and body and comes with a number of parts.
On paper, it seems like a solid project for a high schooler. I didn’t want to throw something at him that would be hard to find parts for or excessively expensive to fix up. |
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They’re neat.
A GTO with a shaker hood scoop. I didn’t used to like them but once I saw a nice example I had to admit they’re surprisingly good looking. The drag racer in me appreciates their light weight. Probably a good 250 to 300 pounds lighter than your ‘68 GTO. |
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Here's an inspiration photo.
Dennis |
Years ago I wouldn't have given these a second look, but they're starting to grow on me. I definitely dig the shaker and the red/white/blue stripes are kind of fun. Honeycomb wheels, while not original, look pretty good on them IMO. I bet with the 4 speed and a hopped up 350 it would be a fun driver that wouldn't get you in too much trouble.
Looking at pics of '74s, some have chrome around the windows and others don't. Is that a different trim level (Custom?) or did the restorers just leave them off? I'll keep you all posted on what we find. |
The original 350 can be made to run pretty well ;)
My biggest issue is traction in low gear ;) Jon |
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Dennis |
I dont think these get as much love as other GTO's, and I would be willing to bet most guys that own 1st and 2nd gens wont admit to one of these. BUT it is a GTO! I have always liked these and the Ventura is a rare counterpart to the Nova. I am surprised at the stupid prices Nova's now get, not sure Ventura's get that love either. I would be all over this for the right price and if its in good enough condition. I admire you wanting to get your kid an old car to fix up, but its not like the 50's-70's when one could buy a junker for $50, put another $100 into and have a car to cruise around in. Anything that needs restoring is a money pit!
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It does have 46 heads on it which leads me to believe it's the original 350. It looks sun baked with a few dents and dings, but solid. I think it may have originally been a red on red car which is cool. I'm trying to align on a time to take a look at it tomorrow afternoon. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723740345 https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723740432 |
Like allot of Pontiac guys, I dismissed the 74 GTO when they were fairly new. As time has passed, they have grown on me quite a bit. Personal friend Bill Rink, (RIP) raced a beautiful red hatchback in NHRA Stock and Super Stock and was extremely successful with it setting multiple National Records and winning many "Wally's" with it. Even with the lowly 350, he made those cars "cool " for the rest of us. As mentioned, it's allot like the F body of the time period and if solid a great project for a young person interested in Pontiacs. Value has not peaked either IMO. Exciting project, good luck with it.
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The biggest "gotcha" might be your insurance agent!
Would check with the agent before purchase for a high schooler. Since the GTO is an OPTION in 1974, try telling the agent the car is a 1974 Pontiac Venturi with V-8 engine. If you get it, and are interested in easy, and some not so easy, modifications, give me a call at 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 central time). Jon |
They are very fun and underrated cars. If you get one just be ready for people telling you "nice Nova." If it is a hatch back, the hatch likes to rust out. They also tend to rust behind the rear wheels. But as was said, they are easy to work on and easy to make quick. A lot of them got bucket seats, console with gauges, and an in dash tach. A lot of them also got 3:08 8.5 positracs. I have owned one since 2001 and it is still every bit as fun to drive as it was when I bought it and got it going. I would recommend buying it if the price is right.
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Jon |
I had a red-on-red base GTO, automatic, 3.08 gear ps, power drum brakes, believe it or not, back in the early 80's. It was a fun car that I bought with a broken 350. I built a mild 1971 YS 400 for it and that was a blast.
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I think this would be a great project Ken, and you two would have a lot of fun with it. Good luck on your decision.
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Local people really will think its a nova that some kid modified because he really wanted a GTO or TA but granny gave him her old nova. So he split the difference.
Functional shaker scoop is very cool. I don't think console gauges were offered in the Pontiac. But they are cool Tach is a little small thing like a clock , to one side. The heads have screw-in studs usually. Hatchbacks had a tent option. The factory decals and GTO font style never looked right to me. If he gets it let him do his own thing with it whether its factory correct or not. |
Reading back others responses it sounds like you could get console gauges.
I've seen the tachs but not the gauges - except in early camaros and some novas. |
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Yes, you could. I vote yes to the '74 GTO. |
Yes, console gauges were available.
Dash tach is small, I added a Judge repro hood tach to mine. Jon |
Did the custom models have better door panels and seats than non-custom ?
I think the one I had was a custom, with a trunk. |
My HS footballl coach had one. I love the things.
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It's cool how much love there is for these cars. I was looking though an old thread with Dennis' black '74 - so nice and inspiring!
This one has a console with the gauges - or at least a set that comes with it. I had to dust off my ancient GTO recognition guide last night to brush up on trim codes and such. Out of curiosity, will ram air manifolds fit these things? We're heading over this afternoon to take a look. I'm going to stop by the bank first ;) Wish us luck! |
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When I was a little kid (6yo). A guy my dad worked with bought one new. It was red with white interior. He traded in a '73 Nova SS that was red with black interior. I remember my dad asking him why he did that as they were basically the same car.
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The 67-69 long branch manifolds will fit (snugly) IF YOU HAVE MANUAL STEERING!
They will NOT fit if you have power steering. The power steering box is about 1/4 inch wider than the manual box. Now, if you have power steering, and think OK how hard is it to change to manual. The box isn't difficult, and not overly expensive, BUT the drag link from an automatic box will not fit the manual box. Unless the drag link has been reproduced (I don't know, I finally found one, and don't need another), they are rarer than an honest politician, and more expensive than the Mona Lisa IF you find one at all. 25 years ago, I spent a year and a half looking, and about $300 when I FINALLY found one! At that point in time, I had made all the other changes, and the car was not driveable without the drag link; its only money! Jon |
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Tool a look at the car this afternoon. It's solid and straight! Some random patches of bondo around the car for dents and dings, but no major damage as far as I could find. Looks like it may have been repainted at some point but it's hard to say given the layers of primer. The front bumper filler is missing. Are those available?
It's originally a So. Cal/Arizona so the interior is completely toast. Nothing is really usable at all. Someone did a groovy job in the '70s recovering the seats and door panels in velour. It originally had the deluxe interior with the hard shell door panels which I know are expensive. It has the console with the gauges, but the console has been hacked up. I'll have to look into availability of those parts, but I don't think the rear panels are available. Engine was rebuilt 10 years ago and has minimal miles on it. The car has been started and run regularly, but not on the road for 10 years. Rear main and trans leak. Starts and idles great. Suspension and brakes are fresh and recently redone. New bushings and springs, new gas tank and fuel lines. Someone put a TH400 in it at some point and it was converted back to a 4 speed. New tires on 18" bandits. Comes with new weatherstripping, carpet, front and rear windshields and a ton of parts. Originally Buccaneer red with a black vinyl top and a red interior. I ordered PHS so we'll see what else it came with. The VIN has a Y in it, so it's not a Custom. No indication of window trim chrome or rocker chrome either. All in all I think it's a super solid project even if it's a little on the homely side at the moment. It would be a beauty restored. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723858343 https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723859062 |
Mine was Burgandy with White Buckets 4spd console ps pdb #s car.
I still have it , and likely going to part it out if I ever lay hands on it again. Bought in late 80's , it had a minor wreck and needed header panel , grill, driver fender , hood. Bumper was not touched in wreck. I was a serious junkyarder back then and sourced all needed Mostly from one donor. Was going to keep it and give to my youngest brother (16 years younger) when he got of age and income to do a car. Big tree dropped across the roof a couple or few years later. Just said -F- it. Been sitting outside ever since in my parts car sanctuary. I have a good front bumper filler complete and console if you guys buy that car. Pulled the seats and door panels out a long time ago and brought inside with the shaker after the tree. Most things will probably be cost prohibitive shipping coast to coast. But I have what was basically a complete #s car that isn't doing anything or going anywhere. Brother ended up getting a Much Better car from me , fairly cheap. And he still has it. |
Looks like I got my codes wrong. It’s red with a white top and a white interior. Still not a bad combo, but I’d leave the vinyl top off.
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A friend in our town has an absolutely beautiful original dark metallic green 396 SS Nova with a black vinyl top. Getting a 74 GTO and painting it Pinemist Green with a black vinyl top and adding a 400 or 455 stroker motor would satisfy my cravings and I wouldn't have my Pontiac friends throwing rocks at me when I drove by.
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I like member Rob B wife's car. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723892135 |
(Opinion) Red with white interior is georgeous when new; red with black interior is much more practical.
Wish my '74 had been red with any color interior rather than the BSG exterior. Jon. |
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I will agree with the difficulty of finding a manual steering Pitman arm for these cars. I had trouble finding one 30 years ago. Importsmasher |
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I let the seller know I'd pay his asking. I actually brought the cash yesterday, but he wanted to think on it.
He sent me the PHS last night which doesn't show A/C, power steering or power brakes. The PS and PB could have easily been added- he mentioned he did the steering and brakes. The lack of A/C on the invoice is confusing. What's left of the A/C setup sure looks factory to me, and it would make sense for an Arizona car. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723920119 |
That's a foul ball for sure.
This car was ordered with all performance oriented options. Then no PS or PDB to boot. It doesn't seem like it would be an AC order. HD Radiator would include with AC. AC was most expensive option and I don't think it would get missed. They usually always had at least SoftRay WS or SoftRay All , with AC But it was not Required. Is it possible it was a 3spd , not 4spd Surprising the amount for Bucket Seats. I never PHS'd the one I have , and not schooled up on these. |
Here is a link to a Mike Noun 74 GTO window sticker.
https://pontiacwindowstickers.com/pr...indow-sticker/ 4spd was extra cost PS and PDB were not standard |
Link to an original 74 GTO W.sticker
https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/vol...74-pontiac-gto https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/vol...74-pontiac-gto |
PHS on a White , Red&White Interior , with side stripes.
The trim tags did bolt on , so a body swap could have less clues. VIN tag doesn't have exposed rivets. https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/ram...74-pontiac-gto https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/ram...74-pontiac-gto https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/ram...74-pontiac-gto |
The phs on mine lists the 4 speed option out. Agree that this one was probably a 3 speed new. Looks like a great project. A pretty rare find.
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When I look at the PHS, then think about the seller mentioning it previously had an automatic in it, the mystery A/C system, and the fact that the trim tag is easily swappable, I'm starting to wonder if there may be more to the story of this car. There’s also no blue VIN decal on the drivers door. Maybe I’m being overly cautious, but it the warning lights are starting to blink for me.
I also noticed that the vin tag on the dash is rusty while the dash itself isn't. Is this a common thing? Are there other places you can find VIN numbers stamped on the body of these cars? https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1723963656 |
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https://www.stevesnovasite.com/threa...cation.131922/ Scroll down for the hidden VIN on a '73. California is not a good place to have a rebodied car. |
Does the seller have any explanation for these inconsistencies or does he get all twitchy and defensive when you even ask a question? That would tell me allot about the honesty of the seller or possibly how good of a liar he is. It may be all legit but I understand your concerns. Not to disparage your possible purchase, but a 74 GTO doesn't seem like a car with enough value to go through all the work to re-body one. Seems like allot of work to put into that model GTO. However, it doesn't seem completely crazy that a 74 GTO could have been "created" from several Ventura parts cars and one GTO. May take some effort to sort out. I would think the seller could fill in some blanks if he has had it a long time.
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A borescope could probably get under the dash and view the VIN rivets.
He should understand your concern of the AC contrast. It is odd that he is having to "think about" accepting his full asking price. Maybe you have already scared him or concerned him. |
If you are questioning the vehicles integrity... walk..
I saw the car advertised a couple weeks ago. Looks like a big project. The seller has to think about it after offer full price with cash in hand? I've had game player sellers do that to me a couple times. If the guy calls you back... I'd tell him to eat sh**. I'd walk as the car and sellers integrity aren't up to par IMO. |
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