68 GTO RA convertible 4 speed
 

I did a deep dive on this car and have found a few anomalies. First a little about the car. I purchased it from the family of the original owner. I met and spoke with the original owner (he sold it to his niece who I purchased the car from). He ordered the car new, drove it till 1978 then took it off the road. She purchased the car around 2006 and got it back on the road around 2010.

The car has its original drivetrain with matching numbers and VINs on block and transmission (except for distributor - more on this later). It has original ZL code axle and original carb. Mileage is documented on title at about 55k.

The car was a very early build November 1967. I have all the original dealer sales paperwork, PHS, POP, etc. On the sales paperwork the dealer added a hood tach. They installed a 1967 tach (taller housing). I assume it was what the dealer had in stock. His niece replaced the 67 tach with a 68 tach (I have the original 67 tach). I have also noticed that the valve cover breather is a 1967 style instead of the 68 style. Also in 68 they used a dual port vacuum advance distributor. Most literature states that all 68s used a 5 port/lines thermostatic switch. That system used a vacuum tee off the rear base plate of the carb. The set up on this car uses the 1967 style carb stud that was a vacuum port and a single vacuum port of the rear of the base plate. It is still connected to the Vacuum Control Valve.

So my question is has anyone owned or seen a very early original 68 car with some 67 parts on it? I know the tach was dealer installed. Also the horn relay is mounted on the fender and not on the cowl where it is supposed to be. However there are no holes punched in the cowl where it is supposed to go. The wiring harness will still connect. Original owner said that is where he remembered it was. I am thinking this was a factory mistake? 1968 was the first year for this location. Do I move it to the correct location or leave it as is?

More about the distributor. 1968 used a dual port vaccum advance. Most people did not like it for performance use. The distributor in this car is the extremely rare RA II 1111941 distributor. I suspect the original owner replaced the poorly performing dual port distributor. Fortunately I have a RA II GTO that needs that distributor! But wait there is more! The distributor I have in my RAII car is the correct one for the RA convertible! Guess I got lucky!

Which assembly plant was the car built in?

K

In another thread I think he said it was Baltimore.

68 engines used a closed PCV system (CPCV). The drivers valve cover had a cap, not a breather. The passenger side valve cover had a tube to the air cleaner and utilized a small filter located inside the air cleaner.
It appears the valve cover breather may have been added after purchase. Memories can change a bit after 56 years.

The preliminary 68 vacuum advance was dual port. The retard function of the diaphragm was bypassed in mid October 67 for automatic cars. Contrary to popular belief, manual transmission cars and all 428s continued to use the dual diaphragm advance / retard canister.

The RA I manual trans engine used the 1111449 distributor as did all the manual trans GTO engines. (exception of the RA II)

The carb v vacuum stud was used in 68 for manual transmission engines.

Great car!

Ed,

Thanks for that info and the diagrams with the vacuum hose routing. I do have the 1111449 distributor in my 68 RA II 4 speed car. I will be swapping them out soon. Also the RA II 4 speed cars did not use the dual port distributor. The 1111449 I have has been changed to a single port vacuum can. I will leave it that way and just plug the lines that would have been connected to the second port.

I agree the previous owner probably made some changes. I do know he had a 65 GTO 4 speed console in the car. He did not like the "vinyl" console. On the sales paperwork he traded in a Iris Mist 65 GTO for the purchase of the 68. I asked him if he had even seen a 68 picture (first year of that body style) and he said no. He just went to his salesman and ordered the car. He also added a passenger side mirror (looks like driver side). He explained that he put a bolt on trailer hitch to pull his boat and wanted the passenger side mirror. There are 3 holes in the trunk where he mounted a reel out style Pontiac underhood light too. He did make some mods. I have pictures of the car when it was taken off the road. It had Cragar SS wheels, and an old Stewart Warner tach mounted on steering column with gauges under the dash. Car was optioned kind of wierd. He ordered the wood wheel, AM-FM radio, RA option, 4 speed (which you got M21 with RA and 4.33 gear HD Safe T Track), rally gauges and clock, manual steering, manual brakes, console, hidden headlights, standard wheels with caps.

My goal is to keep as much of the original parts on the car. They might not be perfect and shiny but as long as they are functional/safe/and decent looking I want to keep as much of the original parts on the car. Items that are missing and or damaged beyond repair will be replaced with either OEM used or reproductions. It probably should get a full professional restoration at some point but I want to drive it and simply don't think I would if it was concours perfect.

Good looking car Mc. We rarely get to talk to the original owners and it's great that you were able to.
The diagrams are from the 68 Diagnosis manual, which include many more.
Thanks for the info IRT the RA II distributor

Dad had an SW tach similar to yours, under the dash. During the 30 years my 68 has been off the road, that tach has been under the dash of numerous vehicles. It will be back soon.

Great find Mark!! Glad it went to someone who can appreciate just how rare it is.

Thanks Gary! It is definitely going to require some work to get it to where I will be happy. I probably will not attempt concours standards. I want to drive it and keep as much of the original parts on it. I still want a Judge but this will do for now. I always seem to get sidetracked when I look .

Ed,
Thanks! The car looks better in pictures but most do. I hope to make it much better before I am done. You have a great deal of knowledge on the 68s. If you don’t mind I may be picking your brain on a few things. I do have 2 other 68s. The RA II 4 speed hardtop which had some light restoration work done and a 68 Tempest Custom that received a frame off before being modified. Is there somewhere I can purchase that manual you spoke of?

Faxon Auto Lit. has a reprint on ebay


https://www.ebay.com/itm/40084348511...Bk9SR5rjo5zUZA

A little more info on the RA vert 4 speed. It was built first week of November in the Baltimore plant. Trim is Verdoro with Black convertible top and black interior. All date codes have been within build time of car (H and J). Block date code is J177, heads J2037, intake J237, transmission P8M15 (August 15, Muncie had thier own lettering system), radiator PA with XJ tank and H date code (August). The earliest I have found is on ZL rear axle housing with 191 (second week of July) and steering box 202 (4th week of July)

I have been disassembling engine compartment to properly detail and correct some previous restoration mistakes. So far no unpleasant surprises. Front upper bushings will need replaced due to age/splitting. Carb sent out for restore/rebuild. Exhaust manifolds look decent but will refresh coating. Upper/lower pans will be going to paint shop along with some brackets and pulleys. I did find a missing exhaust bolt (leak) on RH rear exhaust manifold nearest spark plug. Appears to have been left out during engine rebuild. Looks to be difficult to get a bolt in there. Few pics of progress.

Great Find !
Looks like a real solid piece.
Congrats on the new ownership.

Thanks. It needs a lot of TLC. Mistakes by previous owner. Sat from 1978 to 2006. Amateur restoration in 2009. Then sat outside in a shed for many years again. Goal is to make it presentable and fix all the issues. It probably deserves a frame off but I want to drive the car. I will "preserve" it, make it presentable, and go from there.

I noticed some handwriting on the billing history card. It is hard to make out but appears to possibly say something about code 347. Has anyone seen this before or can decipher?

Can't really make out any part of it completely except 347 and maybe trans.
Mattison might can distinguish it on his copy.

The Ram1 cars had some option price fluctuations at some points.
But I don't think that is what that is about.
I think there are some samples early on in the Firebird section Ram2 Roll Call thread with various memos.

CMD were usually credit memo documents - not sure that says CMD.

On the invoice, it had some missing equipment, possibly related to that?
(not the 347 part)


:confused:

Just a sample of some writing on a 1967 bhc.

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...fit=1496%2C679

There was a problem with the delivery of the car to the dealer. Some items that were ordered were missing. I attached the original sales invoice showing the items noted as missing. The car was delivered missing the wood wheel, stereo radio, ram hood air package (supposed to have been in trunk). The invoice said the items would be installed at no charge to the owner. The owner did request the dealer to install a hood mounted tachometer as evidenced by a seperate entry for that option. Originally the tach was the 67 style (probably what dealer had on the shelf in November of 1967). I have that tach but owner replaced it with a correct style 68 hood tach. Possibly this notation was for the missing Ram Hood air package not available at time of shipping? It looks like the last couple of words are "trans claim". Possibly a transfer claim?

Man I would have been a hot potato when the car came in without those things.
You'd have to think , what else did they not pay attention to.

PMD must have covered that somehow without the dealer having to bill them or have a credit issued to the dealer. There would be more writing on there.

Have seen a few that didn't get their posi axle and had a CMD for that.
That would heavily be a bummer.

Everything is present on the car that is on billing history card and date codes match up. Wood wheel is correct 68 version (not 67 like the dealer installed hood tach). Same for the stereo AM/FM radio. The pans are original.

For reference here are the date codes for various assemblies. The build date on trim tag is 11A (first week of November).

Block code XS, block casting 979250, VIN 28B105374 date code J177
Transmission M21 VIN 28B105374 date code P8M15 (August 15)
Distributor 1111941 8 C 7 (RA II distributor 1968 7th day of March. Obviously was replaced in 1968)
Carb 7028275 XU
Rear axle ZL casting 9793235 date code 191 (second week of July)
Exhaust manifolds LH 9791637 date code H28 RH 9777642
Radiator X J (4 speed) date code H (August).
Intake 9790140 date code J237
Heads Cast 31 date code LH J207 RH J207
Steering box 5679142 date code 202 (4th week of July)

date code for the carb is on the base plate for 68. (Very early cars had a tag similar to '67)

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...9&d=1731349352

Thanks! I will check it once I unbox it from restoration shop. Original owner told me it was the only carb on the car but I will double check. It did have the black/creme vacuum pulloff (black back/creme face)

Date code on carb is 2657 (265th day of 1967) September 22, 1967. The date code and information from the original owner confirm it is the original carb for the car.

Question on 68 Ram Air manifolds bolts. When I got the car it had an exhaust leak on passenger side rear exhaust port. I noticed the front bolt on that port missing. I assumed either it vibrated loose or the owner left it out. Now that I am ready to put the manifolds back on I see how difficult that bolt is to put in place and possibly get a wrench/socket on it. I have 68 RA II manifolds on my other car (original) that were no problem to install. I did order RA manifold bolts from Ames but the package said 69-72. There was not a bolt in that package that would work for that spot. Is there a special bolt or stud used in that location?

PY member 1oldgoat or oldgoat1 has a survivor Ram1 Black Hdtp car he might could give you some help.
He is in NC , I think the western Asheville area.
Do a search for his profile and check location. There are 2 or 3 members with a name similar to that.

It's the car from Kentucky where the guys father owned the dealership it sold new at.
And he sold it on eBay to the NC member.
Previously a 2 owner car iirc.

Thanks! I know Scott very well. I bought a car from him back in the mid 80s. I also touched base with him on my RA II parts search. He left NC and is now in Colorado. Ironically I now live in the area where he and his father worked while in the car business.