Mecum RAIV cars and others this week (anyone here have a car there?)
 

There’s a 69 TA RAIV coming up on 18th and some Judge RAIVs. Wondering if anyone here has a car at the auction?

Anyone have info on cars. ?

Nice TA , column shift.

FYI The red RAIV GTO says wayyyyyyyy down in listing it had flood damage ( fresh water ) nice looking car though

Any water damage was minimal. The owner immediately had the fluids taken care of and the shell dried out in a dealership paint booth oven. I know it has 100% original floors and the quarters are original, so no corrosion that I saw or repaired. The exterior paint was done sometime in the past, before I saw the car.

Awesome info ! Good to have someone who’s seen it. Really good looking car for sure. Did you see it at the auction or do you know the car?

W all the flooding down in FL and NC can’t be too careful w cars these days so this First hand info is great



I

Lots of Pontiac's went across the block today and they didn't cut to commercial.
Very unusual as this would always happen in the past.

I watched most of the day I think I only saw 1 RAIII GTO. That did well. I must have missed them or something how did they do price wise ? Figures all I saw was chevies and fords all day

I know the car and the owner, a straight-up honest guy.

What area is the car out of?
There’s one just like it out of CT that’s not that same car is it?

Owner is a PY member and has owned it since 1991.
Flood was in 1999

PHS shows it sold new in Corry PA . 4.33 axle car
PHS for replacement block shows it came from a 4.33 Judge sold at Knafel in Ohio

Real 9273 carb and date matched JA rims
Honest car with a lot of attention given to correctness and detail.

The car was in the Raleigh area since at least the mid-1990s. I sold the current owner the Ram IV engine somewhere around 1996 - 1998. I acquired the Ram IV engine around 1986 when I was living near Charlotte. Prior to Pontiac Historical Services, you could contact Pontiac directly and ask them to send the build sheet to your car. The build sheet came back as belonging to a 1969 RamIV Judge. The Judge had been wrecked and the owner bought a 1969 Firebird 350 HO 4-spd as a donor body. It's been a long time, but I believe the Judge was probably wrecked in the late 1970s or early 1980s because the engine had been in the Firebird for a number of years when I got it. I helped install the engine in the Ram IV GTO.

After the flood water receded, the car was taken to a body shop, flushed with fresh water, the engine and trans was removed. The engine was taken to the engine shop I used for my work. The Ram IV carb wasn't on the engine at the time, so it was never under water. The main body panels are in excellent condition and I believe all are original to the car. The trunk floor looked like it had never been wet, floor boards were rust free. The car has been stored inside a very nice garage since at least the mid-1990s.

The block, heads, and intake were all from the original motor. Cast dates align up almost perfectly with the motor.

So the complete Knafel Ram4 Judge engine survived intact from intake to oil pan
And that is what is in the car now ?

If that Knafel Judge could be found it would be worth about 50-100% more than any other 69 Judge Hdtp.

I don't know all of the history. I didn't want to make the original post too long.

In the mid-1980s, I was living in Locust (west of Albemarle) and ran into a guy who asked me if I was interested in buying a 1969 Firebird. He said he acquired the Firebird from either a friend or a family member that got into legal trouble and sold the car to raise money. The car was running and driving, but was in primer and didn't look all that good. The guy I bought it from didn't know much about it. I think he was a little reluctant to put me in touch with the guy he bought it from because he didn't want the guy knowing he made a profit from flipping it. I pestered the seller for a while, and I finally got to talk to the previous owner on the phone. I think the previous owner brought the car to NC when he was in the military. He told me the motor was out of a 1969 Judge that had been wrecked a number of years before. I assumed the Judge was wrecked in NC, but I'm not positive about that. The local cops ran the Judge VIN through NC DMV, and they had no record of it. That doesn't mean the Judge wasn't in NC at one time because after five years the VIN numbers drop off of DMV. I believe I also checked SC DMV and VA DMV, and there was no record of it anywhere in the late 1980s. So I did make an effort to find the Judge, with no luck.

Sounds like a nice car . Wasn’t trying to knock the car , as it was disclosed anyway I just didn’t want anyone to miss it and be surprisedAnd it cause some kind of issues.

It personally wouldn’t bother me but it said it is on the title or something to that effect. CT doesn’t have titles so wouldn’t mean squat here. I think other states woukld be the same way .

As far as the engine being from a differnt car that also doesn’t mean much to me. It’s a RAIv it’s all the right RAIv parts, what someone did or didn’t stamp on the block means nothing to me. ( personally) In fact it shows it s an honest car honest seller that its guaranteed not a stamper. That block didn’t know where it was going to be put or what it was going to have stamped on it just knew it was a RAIv block. The car looks amazing in the pictures.

Damn cool story Mike . Thankyou

To me it makes a difference that it's an honest block.
Rarely see those anymore. Just a lot of simulations.

Not sure I entirely know what that references but I’m pretty sure I agree

I think Baron is talking about re-stamped blocks.

In the 1980s, I had several Ram IV blocks, in addition to a Ram I and a Ram II that I should have saved. In addition to the 69 Judge motor, I had a 1970 Ram IV Trans Am block from a car sold new in Asheboro (where Baron lives). I also had a Ram IV out of a 1969 Firebird that came from WV. I pulled the main caps off the Ram I and Ram II motors I found in the Carolinas. These two were probably salvageable, both had dropped a rod and taken a chunk out of the side of the block.

Hey guys I have been posting almost daily from my onsite observations with photos and videos. I also am reporting some of the more notable Pontiac sales. You can follow the report on the FB Pontiac Motor Division and Pontiacs Online sites. I have info on the 69 Judge RAIV cars and others on the 68-69 GTO Lemans FB site too. I have done "deep dives" on the 68 RA I Firebird convertible and a few others. If you want to see somethng let me know and I will try and check it out. I hear the Atoll Blue 70 RA IV is outstanding! I will get pictures of it tomorrow. Things are about to get real interesting this week!

On a sad note John Kraman the Mecum on air commentator passed away. He was a Pontiac enthusiast.

What’s funny is I think I have your name in my phone book from way back in hemmings Classical Pontiac , days , mid yo late 90s next to “firebird RAIV block . “ Didnt have the $$ at the time had a business and just bought a house.

I work in design engineering. When the economy goes into the crapper, R&D is usually one of the first things cut. I have been laid off three times over my career, the first two times my wife pressured me to sell some of my stash. The bad thing is that it was never necessary, my time out of work was 2 weeks, 3 months, and one month respectively. So it's very likely I put the 1970 Ram IV block up for sale around late 1998 or early 2000s.

Yeah it’s a shame when that happens you lose some good stuff you should have kept. I sold a bunch of cars to buy my first house and I regret all of them. I was self employed and needed 20 percent down for no income verification loan. Sold my 70 Chevy pick up chopped and lowered w a big block and th 400 for $4500! Was such a good truck too. Been searching for it to buy it back someday. Saw it later on line for $2k w the big block missing and the hood in the bed. Look sad could never get the guy to answer a PM kn the site it was for sale .

poncho mike did you ever sell a 70 ra4 shortblock with 455HO heads and a ra4 intake on it? i bought one from someone who was really into pontiacs out in your area several decades ago. baron said it wasnt him so curious if it was you.

It wasn't me. I had the opposite of that configuration I offered to sell a long time ago. It was a 1971 455HO YE engine with 1970 Ram IV top end on it. I sold the heads and intake long ago, and I thought I still had the original 1970 Ram IV carb but I can't find it anywhere. I still have the YE block and the rest of the 455HO engine.

The 1970 Ram IV Trans Am block went to a guy on this board. The 1969 Firebird Ram IV block went to someone many years ago.

Didn't you buy a pair of 1969 Ram IV heads bought over the counter with ultra-low miles on them from me, probably 25 years ago? I remember they went to someone in your neck of the woods.

I bet you meant 455HO block with IV heads.
That's what you had asked me about before.
Believe you said you thought it was a running engine when purchased.

I also quizzed Mike on it previously as well.

Wonder what CR a 400 block with HO heads would be ? 7:1 maybe ?

I think you bought the Ram IV heads off that motor, probably in the 1990s. I remember they went out west.

i bought so much stuff in the late 70's thru the 90's i couldnt even tell you.

no this is a 70 WW with HO heads and ra4 intake

That is a wild combo.
Nice parts though, for sure.

[QUOTE=turbo69bird;6545411]I watched most of the day I think I only saw 1 RAIII GTO. That did well. I must have missed them or something how did they do price wise ? Figures all I saw was chevies and fords all day[/QUOTE

I should have responded sooner when it was fresh on my mind.
A 68 GTO restored? Red, black vinyl top black interior, basically a standard 400/th400 low option car went no reserve for around 37K
1900 mile 78 Trans Am Gold/gold auto, price?
1970 Judge RA III WHite with black, price?
1974 Grand Ville convert. triple white, 455/th400 low mile? price?

There were a few others that I don't remember.

Like I said they never cut to commercials during the Pontiacs on the block while I was watching.

I have been doing auction reports on the Pontiac Motor Division FB site (largest memeberhip therefore best place to get the news out). I also post on Pontiacs Online FB site. For specific high end cars I post on 70-71 Judge / Ram Air FB site and 68-69 Judge GTO Lemans FB site. I do also report auction sales. You can also look on Mecum site. Lots of the same models/colors/years there so it helps if you know the lot number. Here is what I think you were asking for. All sales prices are with fee.

Lot K87 1968 GTO 400 auto SOLD $ $40,700
Lot K185 1978 T/A Solar Gold low miles SOLD $66.000
Lot K204 1974 Grandville conv. SOLD $47,300
There were two 1970 Polar White Judges there
Lot K140 Bid Goes On at $95k
Lot W288 Bid Goes On at $70k

They were just talking on mecum about a hemi cuda
I thought it was interesting they dismissed the fact the car had a billboard graphic added in the restoration.
Saying
“
That’s OK, Well some guys didn’t want to advertise it was a hemi. “
well that’s fine but it also not on the factory options.

Idk would they be the same if ralley gauges were added to a Pontiac that didn’t have it ? Or an HO stripe that was t factory or judge stripes on a. Nine judge ???

I found that odd.

I think they should change the name from Mecum to the Five Cs and Ms auction. I mean, literally, 90% of the cars are Camaros, Chevelles, Chargers, Challengers, Corvettes, and Mustangs. Then, one of the few Pontiacs came on deck and a $470.000 bid was declined.

I look at it this way, it’s because more people want a get rid of chevies! It’s an auction people don’t like to sell Pontiac’s. They keep em.

But what does annoy me a little is, I swear they wait for a firebird to come up to cut to comercial . Especially since the announcer from there that just passed was. a hard core Pontiac guy. Although they did give some respect to Pontiac today , certainly more than usual .

I wish more RAIVs sold at auction VS very private sale because our values are way off because of it very few sources have RAIV values correct On GTO or firebird. Mainly because most of these cars traded under cover of night, person to person for many years. Not in a shady way but in a Pontiac people stayed to themselves kinda way honestly they are the best kept secret in muscle cars .

I’m actually kind of non
Denominational. We’ve owned ( and still do) fords , chevies, olds mopars, and even teslas. But many of my buddies are chebby only clowns so I have to bust on Chevys it’s required.
I have to remind them often early on people yanked those chebbys out and dropped in 389 tri powers in vettes and many other Chevies. It was only the aftermarket (which Pontiac didn’t need) that made Chevies what they are…

Thanks for filling in gaps where I missed. There were a bunch that went across the block the last few days and a few brought good money.

I have spent a fair amount of time in the Mopar community and adding the billboard stripe to a '71 Cuda is extremely common, ESPECIALLY Hemi cars. So common thats it's now odd - and refreshing - to see a '71 Hemicuda without them. It's accepted practice, shall we say.

Yeah but should it be? Is adding trans am
Stripes to a 69 firebird Ok at mcacn. I doubt it .
Is changing that Column shift RaIV Ta to a Floor shift correctly done OK. It’s really not any differnt.

The car didn’t have it, it wasn’t dealer installed. Idk it just seems like Chevy and mopar can change anything they want WO penalty but Pontiac must be 100% pure. Or get docked hardcore.

BTW that money on that RAIV TA was pathetic. Cant restore that car for that money. Idk what else it had for issues but you could be driving a bad ass car for not real crazy money
My tesla cost almost that much of course my Tesla runs 10
Flat and Carrie’s 6 people BUT it’s a 69 TA one of 695 ? w the baddest engine made . Buy it put a floor shift in it and enjoy it. Drive it take it local shows and just have a blast with it.

And that red RAIV GTO what a steal someone got a hell of a nice car for cheap cheap money. Daily driver. kIA money!! Stole that car


A dodge or Chevy diesel pick up sells for that money.
I wish I’d been there to inspect it I’d have bought that car.

what did it bid to?

The Ram Air IV auto. car bid to $190,000

Sorry Gary was out doing things for snow prep or I’d have answered myself.

And the red GTO RAIV on it did $67k

Thought it was in the 70s earlier but watching the auction was $67. While it had a rebuilt rotor had he sold it to someone in CT or any other state privately it would have washed his rotor because many states don’t have a title .

The pair of Black Judge 4spd Convertibles were said to be extra extremely nice @ approx 300k each.
That seemed like good strong money.

Little surprised the IV JVert Pepper 4spd didn't quite make it to 500k

Robs 68 Ram2 Vert was the biggest surprise of all @ 115k RnM
My guess would have been 150k but maybe it just wasn't tight enough.

A good source says the cars that went low earned their money.
No real gifts.

Right many excellent condition Pontiacs did bring in some real strong numbers .
a 76 TA Anny 400 Auto T-Tops pulled 121k

the 73 SD TA White / Blk / Hcomb Auto would have been my pick out of them all.
the 73 SD TA Red / Blk 4spd that was slated for Mecum got sold before the auction.

Is the pepper green vert the CT car, Styles bought?

A good source says the cars that went low earned their money.
No real gifts.

Did the source happen to mention how?

Yes . It has been sold a couple few more times since the first time when it went to MCACN.
Said to have a pretty stellar restoration currently.

Varying degrees of quality,
Cosmetics
Body flaws
Some this , some that. Some all of the above.
Worth more in pictures than in person scenarios.