400 cam choice. Daily driver
 

Afternoon folks
I've got a 50 pontiac with a 350 pontiac and 700r4 that's my daily driver. The engine has some issues and I've got a 68 400 I'm freshening up with new rings gaskets and bearings.
It has the stand "254" cam i think was just the 2bbl cam. Should I just leave it or I have a brand new summit 2800 cam i could install. I know it's never gonna be great on mpg but it is my daily most of the time. Thanks for your help

Have you check volumes, and what will your CR be?

Stan

I haven't checked the volumn but they are 1968 "15" heads.

If it’s got the 254 cam then it was a 265 hp motor .

The heads are 88 to 90 CCs which would have made for an actual 7.8 to 8 to 1 compression.

Have the heads ever been rebuilt?

If your not looking to mill the heads then I would go no larger the something like the factory 066 cam , and even then that would be dependent on what rear gears your car has.

Steve. Maybe I need to cc those heads. Wallace racing website show them at 10.5 cr. I can leave the factory cam in. I'm not trying to build nothing to wild just a daily driver and reliable

Honestly if not chasing performance I would leave the factory cam in and avoid the worries of a cam going flat.

I would look at the 254 cam with a critical eye then go from there, not to hard to pull the valley cover pull the lifters up and look at the foot and lobe, if you replace the summit 2800 would be fine

With the problem today's cams and lifters are having with wear I would not change the cam if it is in good condition. Why go looking for problems?

You have to look at the old cam to even tell if its in decent shape ... you know precisely nothing until you look

I have yet to pull an original Pontiac build apart that had a cam i would run again and the worse was a 254 cam with 3 nearly flat lobes ..

I'm gonna pull it all down and inspect everything. Just trying to make sure what the best direction is gonna be.

I think a 2800 cam would work great on a daily driver. I ran a 2800 cam in a 350, and was pleased. Fun yet manageable, with specs that allow stock valvetrain components and durability.

When I run these numbers for your stock 400,
Cylinder volume = 819.136 CCs

Chamber 87 CCs

Head gasket 9.4 CCs

Deck clearance ( .023") = 3768 CCs

Valve notch volume = 6.4 CCs

The result is a 8.9 to 1 compression.
As far as stock stated compressions go before 1971 they where all at least 1/2 a compression point higher then you find published.

I have a set of 15s I use as development / Mule heads and somewhere I have written down what they CC'ed at and I will try to dig that up so maybe I can save you from CCing yours, , but for now and until you CC yours I would use the 8.9 to 1 number when looking at Cam picks.

Also like I asked previously, what rear gears does the vehicle have ?

The car has 3.73 gears and a 700r4.

1968, 15 heads are 75cc. 1970, 15 heads from a 455 are 87cc. So yeah you have about 10 to 1 compression. Change the cam for sure.

If they are 75 CCs then you have 9.92 to 1.

Bore = 4.12 Stroke = 3.75 Swept / Cylinder Volume = 819.2505
Combustion Chamber Volume = 75.0 Piston Dome (+) / Dish (-) Volume = -6.4
Deck Clearance Below (+) / Above (-) = 0.023 Deck Clearance cc = 5.024737 <<<<
Compressed Head Gasket Thickness = 0.043027 Head Gasket Bore Size = 4.12
Head Gasket cc = 9.4 Top Ring Land cc = 0.0
Using Calculated Base Compression Ratio of 9.5494:1

Bore = 4.12 Stroke = 3.75 Swept / Cylinder Volume = 819.2505
Combustion Chamber Volume = 75.0 Piston Dome (+) / Dish (-) Volume = -6.4
Deck Clearance Below (+) / Above (-) = 0.00475 Deck Clearance cc = 1.037717 <<<<<
Compressed Head Gasket Thickness = 0.043027 Head Gasket Bore Size = 4.12
Head Gasket cc = 9.4 Top Ring Land cc = 0.0
Using Calculated Base Compression Ratio of 9.9206:1

Stan

I'm wondering if that's to much compression for a pump gas daily driver?? I have a really good pair of 6x4 heads. What's yalls opinion of those on that 400. Gonna have an aluminum intake and factory manifolds.

#15 heads are not 75cc ... stay away from online charts that have nearly every head from 1967 to 1970 at 72-75ccs

If a head was destin for a 2bbl it is going to have approx 10cc more chamber per a given CUIN. Than a 4bbl head.

Check your heads and you will know

MY Pontiac service manual's engine chart and lists a 290HP 400 offered in Full size Pontiacs. It lists it came with a 2 bbl carb , a 254 cam and 10.5 compression.
Glenn

I'm gonna cc those heads this weekend and I'll report back. Curious what anyone's thoughts on the 6x4 heads are??

6X-4 are better heads with a 400 for what was described, and have induction hardened exhaust seats which is much better for daily driving, use the Summit cam you already have and use the 6X heads, or could keep the stock 254 cam, either one you could run on 87 octane with the 6X heads. The 15s would require 93 octane.

What heads are on your 350? 350 heads on a 400 usually give a little bump in compression from smog era setups (like 6x-8's), and should give a manageable compression when used in lieu of high compression 60's heads. Someone has already mentioned 6x-4's (350 heads) on your 400.

High compression 400 heads work nicely on a 350. Lower compression 350 heads work nice on a mild 400 build. I run #47's on a 400. I run #12's on a 350.

And for a daily driver with mild cam (2800), you won't really have to worry much about small valve heads. The 1.96/1.66 valves would be just fine.

1969 47's and 1970 11's seem to be out there still.

With your stated intention, a very fun daily driver would be easily achievable.

The 350 i currently have in there has #17 heads as it happens to be a '68 as well so i don't know if they would be a good option.

if its got #15 heads on the 68 400 290/340 HP I would not run less than a Summit 2801 or Blueprint 068 copy , either is a great daily driver do all performer in a 400 with some decent compression but have also ran very well in lower 8.8:1 400 too. the 68 265 HP B body engine had #14 heads the 15 is far more common as 290 hp 2 barrel Catalina/Executive and the base Bonneville 340 hp version in 68

I
 

I agree with those things in the last post. The 2800 is not enough cam for the higher compression heads with a 400. You can run up to about 9.5 with a 2800, but it runs just as good at 9:1.. The 2801 and 068 are better choices above 9:1. The little 254 would very likely be as pump gas friendly as the 2800, the 254 is a very small anemic cam meant for a 2bbl, and won’t fill the cylinders like a cam designed for a 4bbl. Often times the very small cams meant for 2bbl engines can pump more compression but run equal or less octane fuel than some bigger cams because they are so small the engine doesn’t breath enough to make much HP, they cut off cylinder pressure making the entire power band lower.

I prefer higher compression engines, but using the 2800 or a 254 in a 400, the 6X-4 would be my pick.

I agree with you on enjoying the higher compression engines!! I'm just thinking daily driver and pump gas plus the best mpg(i know it's not gonna be great With a 50 plus year old v8) thanks for all the help and recommendations

I have a set of 17 heads that I was gonna use for a 400 build, but all the local machine shops quoted over $2000 to get em set up. The chambers measured out to ~83cc’s, about perfect for a 400.

I did a quick calculation for you for a stock 400, compression would be around 9.0:1. I think that would be great for your 2800 cam and you might even be able to run 87 octane.

6X-4 heads are also a popular choice, but you’d be down around 8.3:1 comp ratio.

If the 17’s are in good shape, and you don’t mind taking apart the 350, that’s where I’d go. I think that would be the most economical route. And it’ll give you a good recipe. The smaller 1.96/1.66 valves will help with port velocity/torque down low.