Red 73 SD high option on BaT
 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...am-7/#comments

Anyone know this car from earlier days ?
On the SD Registry it shows it was at 112,000 miles in Dec 91
Fully restored at 100,000

Seller thinks it is a virgin unrestored low mileage car with 18,000 miles ?

Poncho-Mike has a similar equipped Red 73 With Tuxedo and Red Carpet.
Keep a watch on this one Mike for a rough estimate on yours.

Of course i'd love to have it, but after reading comments on BAT there are serious discrepencies that need to be addressed for sure.

I like the red rug. Looks like a awesome car, but no way I'm buying the 18k original mile story.

It was used by an old lady to get grocery

Baron,

It's pretty much the twin to my car. Same overall color scheme, including the red carpet and tuxedo interior. Mine has Rally II wheels and no 8-track tape deck.

Mike

Wonder if it originally came with Honeycombs?
Would the wheels be on the window sticker?
(know it won't be on PHS)


:confused:

IF ,,, it was actually the car that Mike Pergande owned , vintage pictures posted before by Lloyd showed it with R2 wheels .
Several people have said they knew Mike (of Dickinson , Texas) but no one seems to know if this was his former Red 73 SD.

John what can you tell us about the SD Registry Entry on the car ?
2V87X3N138433
There are several differences as the car sits , and/or how it was from factory
Black interior , rear console , no hood bird , 3.42 axle

Did Mike Pergande provide the data ?
Or is there anything you can tell us about who, what, when the data was received.

It is currently wearing a replacement rear bumper without the bumper guards.

There is always the possibility previous owner(s) made some changes to the car.
That were later corrected.

I had power locks, power windows, rear console, mint Honeycombs with NOS trim rings and centers, and NOS Blue hood bird (non-hood bird car) to add to my 73 - but never did it.
Gave all those to Yousseff with the car but the only thing he used on the car was the hood bird.

I'm not looking at a copy of it at the moment .,.
But my original window sticker had a side bar that listed standard default equipment.
There is at least one copy of it posted on here.

Anyway , the side just lists defaults.
I know it had 4spd listed as default , but can't remember which wheel was default.
Mine was a R2 car with Auto AC

Bottom line , window sticker doesn't tell which transmission or wheels the cars came with.

From the registry...

That has been updated in the past day or two.
That's not how it appeared a couple days ago.

I should have screen shot it then.
Didn't list the dealer before either.
It's been rehashed

I would have thought the reason for the registry was to report how it was originally built. And, why have the 1991 date on there....

PHS does that.
The registry is a tracking device , per se'.

So when a guy claims in 2025 a car is an all original survivor with 18k miles , the 1991 data point gives a perspective to reflect on.
I think the reported data points were a good idea.
And he has 149 clocked of the 252 .

Just like if in 20 years someone tries to claim my former car is a one owner survivor with low mileage, people can reference my data point in 2006 and see that it was already on its second owner with 80k miles.

Keep up the good work John

This car was on the list Frank Gatarz did.
I don't have any info other than that.

I try to keep the list as it came from factory, but sometimes don't have any docs like PHS so use what is submitted.

I changed the info on this one to reflect the PHS/Window sticker. Probably should had that it is modified now?

:confused:

Just my opinion , should have left it exactly like Frank had it.
Or maybe added a new note that it differed from the Invoice at that point in time.

It probably doesn't matter - but the owner, Rocky, and myself all referenced it showing Black interior on the Registry - and I even linked the Registry page on the auction.
New readers will click that and think we were all drunk.

It still differs from the Invoice as it is listed now.
Auto AC got 3.08 , not 3.42
And it came with a hood bird as new.

It's your web host and can do what you want with it.
I'd put it back the way it was , with a notation.

I dont think i referenced on the auction that it also showed rear console, 3.42 gear, no hood bird, in addition to Black interior.
Frank listed it in its current state of being in 1991 evidently.

Seller is/was claiming the car is all original everything with factory paint and 18k miles.

Pass fender is otc Service Replacement , an invoice in the records show driver fender repaint about 12 years ago , carb is a 74 unit , upper range speedo digits not completely in synch , EUN only 5 digits , rear bumper replaced with non bumper guards , wrong bolts on the reinforcement brackets at radiator support ..... the list will probably keep growing.

No engine or trans VIN proofed yet.

A nice older restoration that has been preserved.
Didn't need the extra hype.
Has a plastic valance and original hairy hose.

I think he said he bought it around 2010 , or so.
Would have been an 80-100k car at that time if all things matched correctly.
Obviously he didn't verify the drivetrain particulars when he bought it.

I agree I think the seller was douped when he bought it 15 years ago, still a very nice restored example IMO. But if he is L expecting low mileage original SD Prices I think he will be disappointed. Out of my price range even at restored and slightly modified prices.

The 77322 is good match if 77322x for the VIN of car.


:)

Yes another digit on either side would help.
But to the right looks clean , to left there might be possible chance.

It's in the grey area about still having the leading "C" like some EUNs of the vintage.
Which might mean it's missing 2 characters.

Larry's Sunroof SD car is later built and has the "C" in front of the 8xx,xxx EUN
But I have seen base 455's that had dropped the "C" in either April or May as a cutoff point,
But we were only using base 455 TA samples to find the switch , not any SD's.

Here's a pic of my '73 SD455 EUN C802184...you can just barely make out the 'C'. Late July build date.

Dennis

Good gracious Dennis
Brewster 4spd no less . Salute

It's looking worse for the full originality of the Red car.
Missing 2 complete digits from EUN it appears.
Never witnessed that fiasco , ever.

Larry and Dennis cars are both later than the Red car.


Some fellow on BaT asked me about the "C" character , about a year or more ago.
When did it stop - was his interest.
We just used numerous previous examples of base 455 TA's available in BaT archive and pinned it down to a fairly small range in build weeks and EUN .
I've already forgotten the defacto result , it wasn't too significant to me at the time.

It's eye opening to me now that it appears the 73 SD blocks continued to use it , evidently to the end.
I might can dig up that little base 455 study we did on BaT.

BVZ, I sold the SD TA back in 2013, something I shouldn't have done. Here's a pic of it in 1990 after I bought it. I swapped on the JW 15x7 Rally II's for the original Honeycombs with bald tires.

Dennis

Dennis , since it's long gone now , what did you have to pay to become the owner in 1990 ?
I'm guessing 30-35 , maybe.

That's close to same time I bought mine in 89
Super nice Automatic AC cars were trading for 20-25

Sold mine 2009 , on here.

PHS does not show the no charge upgrades on the Trans Am. It would have been nice to see a slot for KNOWN former owners (a count, not names), instead of in the notes. Current owner could be on file only seen by admin. And, if it's still around or met some demise. But, it's not for me to say as I don't run the registry.

Number of known owners could be a thing .
Mine is still with 3rd owner if he wants to go that route.

My only real suggestion would be to put the notes slot last , and make it a bigger box to be more encouraging.
Maybe name it "noteworthy additional details"
Something along that line.

I like the notes that some have provided on some of the cars.
Amazed that he has so many of them.
Great piece of work

John if you have any desire to web host the WW5 roll call into a Registry you have my complete graces.
Take it and run with it if you want another project.
It's pretty much run it's course on PY

You might get more new entries.
Your site gets traffic from every facet of Pontiac fans.

12.5 in 1989

Dennis

JawDrop ! @ 12.5

Mine was 5.5 , but that wasn't a normal activity really at all.
Had a standing offer of 18.5 the following week.

In latter part of 1999 offered it to a few guys for 25k
Nobody wanted to spend because of Y2K hysteria in certain circles.

I thought I overpaid, but I knew what the car was, so didn't dicker. The then owner needed quick cash for finishing a house he was building. I later bought NOS SD455 heads (bare) from him for $600. I still have those. It had 45k miles and only 49k when I sold it after owing it for 24 years. I never did anything to it other than maintenance. Drove it to the TA Nats a few times and that racked up the most miles.

Dennis

No that was way under market.
About 90 or 91 a friend paid around 12 for a solid project red 4spd.
It was drivable but needed a full cosmetic and mechanical resto.
He did a frame off on it right away.
When it was done he was turning down offers of 50.

Couple pictures from topic car.
I have to do some comparison sampling and try to find some ultra early built 74 SD EUN samples.
I'm thinking this might be an early 74 block ,,,, or a recreation.

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=1125%2C1413

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...size=620%2C413

Todd, question.
When did the hardboard headliner get intoduced? Why does it look like he has the headliner/bows installed? Didn't want to ask on the auction.

I'm not up on that factoid on the headliner .
But pretty sure I have seen it discussed on here before.
My 73 Norwood SD was 05C build week , and was hardboard headliner.
This car is 06B , and I agree it looks like bow-style.

Towards the 18,000 miles topic , interior-wise ,
The metal dash has been resprayed - forward of dashpad.
VIN plate has high film thickness , and some fisheyes in the paint around that area.

The plastic headliner trim on pass side w/s pillar and roof line both show chip/flaking with black underneath.
Both lower door panels have the same tell-tell in the recess pockets that clearance the seatbelts.
Those trims should have all been white molded plastic.
They have been replaced with better black pieces and dyed white.
I wouldn't expect that on a low miler that would have had to been kept out of elements.

I see a lot of evidence the car has been apart and restored.
Already mentioned some things.

Door to hinge bolts show some excessive wrench chipping.

The paint in the rain gutter by the trunklid hinge area is all too nice and appears too have been recoated.
Trunk mat is not an original.
Front spoiler and valance have been sprayed , along with all flares and their welting.
Those all would have been molded color , except maybe not the chin spoiler.

Rear leaf springs and and all front / rear suspension pieces have been resprayed.

Axle casting date is June 12 on 06B body.
That is a mighty tight date ,,, seems too tight.

All in all , the older resto in Registry notes are seeming accurate.
Axle date might fall into swap zone , and 3.42 is indicated on Registry versus original 3.08

Nothing wrong with a nice car being restored .

I'm fine with the rear date. You probably can't see the PHS well, but even though the body was made 06B, the ship date was 06-26-73. The rear on my Formula 07C body car is G173 cast, 201 (July 20th) assembled and shipped 07-25-73.
I will say that the body tag screws on mine have phillips as well as hex head. One of the reasons I haven't been commenting on this car. To myself, I wanted to argue rebody vs. restore...

I couldn't pull a date from the invoice.
Just mentioned it was the superior document , in post on auction about axle and invoice.

Have seen Phillips and non-phillips on some examples.
But Phillips seems to be the leader in 73

And Todd, compare this EUN vs. the current auction one...
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...c-firebird-20/
Front of the EUN needs scraping.

Just another normal example of 73 SD EUN
I really don't like the 5 digit EUN on the auction car. At all.
https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...size=620%2C413

If I were buying this car , there would have to be a contract provision to see the background of EUN and VIN on block wiped to bare cast iron with lacquer thinner. JMO

Looks like Steve S. (member sd455hota) has owned the car, twice. Maybe reach out to him and ask the hard questions. I'm still arguing with myself...

How hard is it to get date codes off the wheels when you've pulled them to take pictures of the calipers and components?

Tood, this thread should ease your thoughts on the engine...
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...hlight=1112205

Upper ball joints on the BaT car should have rivets but these have bolts, indicating they have been changed.

Holy Crap I need to get access back to my files instead of using an outdated memory bank in my head.

Have stated my car was 05C , from memory --- but it was 06B.
Just like the topic car 06B
Maybe the RamAir2 factoid crossed paths in my brain. idunno

The thread that Ransom linked is also an 06B car.
No "C" in EUN , but 6 digits 777357
Against BaT car 5 digit 77322
Maybe/hopefully he has another 7 hiding in front.

Too hard to tell if the hex heads were Phillips or not.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...0&d=1591671250

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...2&d=1591927997

Going to try and find my for sale listing.
Maybe I posted trim tag and EUN pics .

Here is what I copy/pasted from my ad , onto that thread that Ransom linked.

Engine Block Code XD
Matching partial VIN / original born-with engine
Cast date K 11 2 (November 11, 1972)

Head Code 16 Round Port
Cast date Driver head K 18 2 (November 18, 1972)
Cast date Passenger head K 28 2 (Nov 28,1972)

Intake Code LS2
Cast date K 17 2 (Nov 17, 1972)

Carb Code 7043270 JD Rochester Qjet
Date code 3572 (357th day of 1972 = Dec. 22, 1972)

Distributor Code 1112205
Date code 2L28 (Dec 28, 1972)

E.G.R. Valve Code MH 7040175
Date code 256 2 (256th day of 1972)

Alternator Code 1100928 55 amp
Date code 3E24 (May 24, 1973)

Radiator Tag Codes
Harrison
FC 1P AE 156

Transmission Tag Codes (THM 400)
PQ (application)73 (year) P20 (Pontiac) 1068 (sequence unit number)

Differential (10 bolt Nodular housing [HD], 3.08 posi)
Casting Numbers
N (nodular)
1235542 B
GM 15
Casting date F 5 3 (June 5, 1973)
3.08 ratio

Front brake rotors
Driver side date E303 (May 30, 1973)
Passenger side date E313 (May 31, 1973)

Front upper ball joints - original riveted
Driver side date C23 3 (March 23, 1973)
Passenger side date C24 3 (March 24, 1973)

Rear brake drums
Driver side date E 29 73 (May 29, 1973)
Passenger side date F 4 73 (June 4, 1973)

Muffler - Transverse Crossflow (GM over counter Service Replacement)
83398743
Date 10 H 8 (August 10, 1978)
Was bought as N.O.S. over the counter in 1981 and installed in 1981.

Rally 2 Rims all coded HM and still wearing factory paint
Three have date code of 5 23 3 (May 23, 1973)
One has date of 5 22 3 (May 22, 1973)


*Shipping date on Invoice was June 23

A few more pics of interest from the 45k mile pine needle car found in Georgia.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...6&d=1591965912

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...5&d=1591965865

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...3&d=1591671389

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...4&d=1591671422

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1591671292

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...6&d=1675816362

Found my for sale listing. I didn't post those pics on the ad.
But between a couple of sick laptops , I have about 500 more pictures of things on the car.
oh well

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=587910
Your for sale ad.
Printed info...
Trim Tag:
ST 73 2FS87 N 16341
243 A51 11 11
06B WS 4660 385

As you can see from the last 6 digit number...
Yours was built on Day 66, BaT car is Day 67 and Kyle's is/was Day 68.

Your Genius is almost unfair . Not kidding either.

Where does the Day 66 67 68 count start from ?

Was hoping to see the screw heads on my old trim tag .
Didn't work out right now , but I took pictures of everything on that car that meant anything.

The screw heads are usually 1/4" headed with phillips head inside. The auction one looks like 5/16" or 3/8" head, which may mean larger hole underneath from rivet body, not small screw hole.
Discussion of when 1973 production start is here...
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=815503

So, those numbers are the second 66-68. It starts at 01-99, then 01-99, and 01-end on a normal production model year.