Could Pontiac Rise Again?
 

Interesting speculation in this story about a potential revival of the Pontiac brand:
https://www.hotcars.com/pontiac-name-trademark-gm/

Could it? Most definitely. Will it? Probably honestly. But when? who knows. And probably a short term run. And probably not in a timely manner.

Not if there's batteries involved.

I've been a mechanic now for 30 years. Just last week I worked on a "Cadillac" which was nothing more than a glorified Equionox (or something very small and very cheap). Dead and gone is what Pontiac needs to stay.

Come to think of it, that should have happened about 1980....

Just the fact that people are still talking and thinking something like this may happen shows how STUPID of a decision to kill off the brand was. Be careful what you hope for would be my suggestion.

It will never happen. I work for GM at the Warren Tech Center in Michigan. Most people don't even remember Pontiac. The company could care less about it anymore. I wear Pontiac logo shirts and sweatshirts, and most people don't really remember it. I couldn't agree more that it was a mistake to drop the Pontiac line.

I also doubt it will happen.
If it would happen with a model name it probably would be like Ford's Maverick. Now a SUV or something weird?


:confused:

I hope it does NOT. What would it be ? Just another suv that looks like every other suv out there. Probably with a 6 cylinder or a 2.5L turbo (maybe electric). I'm sure it would be a good car(?) but just the same as all the others.

Pontiac is dead! Embrace what we have!

Pontiac: Hybrids, also hydrogen fuel into large CID. No emission controls.

Pontiac was founded in 1926, same year as Jim Wangers birth, not 1925 as stated on the web page.

Do you trust an article that can't even get that right?

K

Let's hope not, am dreading the hideous new designs they could create just to try to be different. it will most likely ruined Pontiac's reputation even more.

No.

It’s gone, let it go.

When I read this yesterday, I too noticed the 1925.

Today, I went back to read it to clarify some comments I will make, and they have corrected it to 1926.

The points I want to make (and I am not claiming that this will happen) are that at this time, the only CARS available from GM are the Cadillac CT4, CT5 and the Corvette.

I found this lineup frustrating as I wanted to replace my CT4 with something with easier access into the rear seat and with more trunk space. I didn't want the larger CT5, I wanted something with a similar footprint, just with better space utilization.

I ended up with a BMW 330i Xdrive. Now I really liked my CT4, with the exception of the rear seat access and trunk.

The CT4 is 189" long the CT5 is 194" and the 330i is 186".

The rear seat leg room is 33", 37 and 35 respectively.

Trunk space is 11', 12 and 17 respectively.

So the BMW 330 is slightly smaller than the CT4, has the 2nd best rear seat legroom and the most trunk space.

The bonus is the power, handling and fuel economy. All three use a 2.0L turbo. But the BMW has 18 more HP, 37 more lb/ft of torque and full time AWD.

EPA ratings are very similar. My real world best in my CT4 (450 mile average on straight highway run) was 36 MPG. My real world best in the BMW has been 44 MPG (same 450 mile highway run, car in Eco Mode- mode reprograms the transmission to operate more fuel efficiently).

GM needs some better options!

2nd point - and this was brought up in the article - GM needs a new a new platform to compete in NASCAR by 2026. What a way to kick off the 'rebirth' of Pontiac than on the 100th anniversary?

GM brought back the Hummer brand, marketing through GMC dealers.

The article doesn't say this, but my idea would be to bring back a limited Pontiac line through GMC also, giving GMC a car line and that would be the new NASCAR entry.

That would also follow the GMC 'Professional Grade' marketing as this would be a higher end car than the Malibu and Impala that Chevy has done away with. It would also possibly allow the them to use the traditional Pontiac split grille that was unique to Pontiac for decades.

A guy can dream, can't he???

About the article, it's also on You Tube which I watched:

https://i.ibb.co/CMYSPxv/bs-bs-meter.gif

You would be depending on a company that stated within the last 2 years all their cars would be electric powered within 10 years. How'd that work out?

They just recalled over 800,000 trucks for faulty machining of the crankshafts, it's estimated over 3% of these trucks will need new engines under warranty. They're trying to bandaid the problem by switching from 0-20 oil to 0-40 oil...........LMAO

Not only have they pissed off Pontiac and Oldsmobile consumers by dumping those lines, they've likely lost hundreds of thousands of chevy and GMC truck owners , with this latest quality control screw up over a 4 year run of defectively machined crankshafts in the L87 6.2 litre V8s.

Mary Barra has screwed up GM royaly over her tenure, but she still keeps her job.....:noidea:

Even if the Pontiac name was resurrected, they'd manage to muck up the product so that it would be a colossal abortion of what the Pontiac brand once was. I doubt that there are enough marks left on the face of the earth to buy enough of the resurrected "PONTIACS" to make money to cover the cost of this fantasy.

This is currently what GM is good at, killing once great cars and brands:

https://i.ibb.co/MkY6297/pontiacnailbyost.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/7jZ4Mkz/yost-brad-RIP09fb.jpg

They do this exceedingly well.........:first:

NUFF SAID........;)

Rule of thumb: If you can't pronounce the name of the author, then there's a good chance it's a website you should be avoiding.

Hot Cars is one, and that website was one of two featured in this story that I wanted to title, "AI or ****ty Website?"

Spend your time curating good resources and avoid the ones that promote bad info.

The amount of BS I hear constantly from Pontiac guys about how starting in 82, they weren't real Pontiacs anymore, but now there's a desire to have them come back?

Does anyone remember the absolute steaming piles that were rolling off the assembly line during the last years of Pontiac production? Let's all face reality, the Pontiac we all know and love was dead before actually getting the axe, and it's never coming back. In some alternate universe, maybe it comes back, only to grace us with FWD pos fleet vehicles and throwaway crossovers.

From a purely personal standpoint, it doesn't matter. Even if they came back with the greatest car ever made, a Corvette killer, or more, I couldn't afford to buy it. I am retired and likely have the collector cars I will die with. For daily drivers, I prefer beaters I don't have to worry about on the roads filled with insane drivers. I would certainly follow from the sidelines, but would not be a participant helping GM stay in business. I have a feeling I am not alone. I am confident very, very few people under 50 years old could care a less or even remember Pontiac for the great cars they made "back in the day".

Im all for it, I still want a 98-02 Trans Am, A GXP Solstice Coupe and a G8 GXP I don't care if they have corporate power plant.

I just don't see what their market share would be. I just looked at Buicks lineup for 2025, looks like they don't have anything that's not a crossover/small SUV. There doesn't seem to be any market for exciting Sedans, beyond what Cadilac gets with the CTSV. So I just don't see what they would be able to do that wouldn't just be stealing from one of their other brands.

With the Camaro cancelled I guess you could wait a couple of years until demand for pony cars builds up and come out with a Firebird.

I also wouldn't read too deeply into GM renewing the brand trademark. Im sure they still make plenty of easy money off of memorabilia/clothing licensing.

The idea that GM would revive Pontiac for halo type performance cars seems far fetched. How many more ZR1s and CT6-V Blackwings would GM sell if they were modestly restyled and badged as Pontiacs? Probably not many. They could replace the discontinued ZL1 with something with Pontiac badging, but it's not clear why they would do it.

Exactly, having designed and sold Pontiac shirts, GM likes that easy money that comes with no effort, or little investment on their part.

As long as people buy Pontiac merchandise, GM will keep reaping the rewards.

GM doesn't own the rights to Pontiac the name, as it was the name of a former Ottawa Indian chief. They also lost the copyright on the Indian head logo. They do own the arrowhead logo along with the PMD name rights.

Nobody makes CARS anymore. Pontiac was a good CAR company in it's prime not a SUV company!

General Motors has neither the will or the expertise to bring back Pontiac on any level. It's been 15 years since the last one rolled off the assembly line and there's literally no one left to pick up the torch.

Besides, bringing Pontiac back would be admitting GM made a mistake and according to them, they've never made a mistake...

Still though, if GM asked me to consult on a Pontiac revival project, I would do it in a minute...

100% honestly it never made sense to me how all of GMs branches stayed profitable for as long as they did with so many similar offerings.

From the 50s to the 80s they pretty much built a platform car.

68-72 A body for example, then each brand got a bite at the apple. Cutlass, Skylark, Chevelle, LeMans/GTO. Cadillac is the only one that was really different.

We (us on the forum) look at that lineup and see dramatic differences in Engine Options. But broadly speaking, WE, are now and always have been a small if vocal part of the consumer base. I don't think the unwashed masses see that large of a difference.

I would like to see data from the that time period to know how geographically based it was. Did Oldsmobile sell better in some areas. I hear people who grew up in the 60s/70s say "My dad was a Mercury man, got a new one ever two years" I wonder if that's largely because their town just happened to have a Mercury dealer. Or maybe that was the first dealer in the town and they won loyalty early. Its not like Carvana was a thing then. Did International Scouts sell better in Indiana because they were made in Ft Wayne?

Here's the thing... IF they did it, it would probably be a hit There's a sense of nostalgia these days. Who knows, maybe GM planned to bring back Pontiac all along. Probably not, I'm just speculating.

Pontiac was Pontiac Motor Division, PMD. Revival would be PSD for Style. Thus PDS for Pontiac Derangement Syndrome.

Yet, their successful old designs could be re-drivelined for Hybrids or Big engines with Hydrogen. Oh, already posted that, would be PMD.

I am also a fan of all things Studebaker. Especially the V-8 Era, much like my love for Pontiac. It is interesting to sit back and look at the two brands in the long lens. Studebaker was a major innovator, produced some stunning and beautiful cars, ahead of their time styling. They set durability records and racing records much like Pontiac in the glory years. They had a wonderful little V-8. Fantastic, compact design, forged internals, very strong bottom ends and good flowing heads. Their one mistake engine wise, was the inability to make it large enough for the bigger and bigger cars. Their demise was a complex mixture of poor decisions, lack of development money, timing, and leadership and direction at the top. Sound familiar? Going out of business 45 years BEFORE Pontiac, gives me a chance to took at where Pontiac is headed. History is the best predictor of the future. In 2025, Studebaker still has a surprisingly strong following and national club with local chapters. Think POCI. The AVERAGE age of the Studebaker faithful is probably 72-75 years old. Some in their 90's and sure some grandchildren in their 20's and 30's are still fans, a few. Each year, the numbers fall slightly, only because of deaths and folks that just can't get their cars out. The really fantastic, restored, rare, or performance models are holding their values or going up slightly.
This is the future I see for Pontiac. It's not a grim future. We have another 30-40 years of enjoyment of our beloved brand. I will be 107 years old in 40 years, so not too worried about it. Bringing the Pontiac name back in the form of a car or SUV just doesn't make any sense to me at all. And I bleed Pontiac metallic blue!!

My grandson, a 28 year old Marine currently stationed in Okinawa, knows what a Pontiac is. His 'dream car' is a '70 - 73 PONTIAC Firebird Formula, similar to the one below.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....be4400c706a23a

He's been in for 5 years so far and his desire for the Formula goes back further than that.

He wasn't sure of the year or year's that the Formula had that hood and front end, but he showed me a picture of one he had seen parked in Madison, WI and asked what year it was so he would know what to look for in the future.

In '74 they put the big black rubber strip on the bumper and he didn't like that.

Back in 1939, FISHER BODY made about 5 core body shells. That meant a LaSalle a Chevy, Pontiac, caddy, Buicks, Olds are nearly the same. The styling and driveline after that made them the brands they were. By 1982 is was just the styling that was left. After GM finally bought out Fisher Body, it was all over for any individual Identity.

If there is money to be made by slapping an arrowhead on something and calling it a 'Pontiac' they will do it. See: 04-06 "GTO"

I couldn't have said it better myself. GM has been on the "we never make mistakes, it's the customers who are wrong!" mentality kick since the late 1960s and to do anything otherwise is tilting at windmills for those of us who desperately want them to do better and be better.

And if I worked there or was asked to consult on such a project, I would consider it a life's dream to be able to do so.

They were *this* close to having a decent brand again when GM gave them the axe.

One flaw in your example, Holden already had a Monaro GTO/HSV model before Bob Lutz ever thought about using Pontiac styling cues, and importing it to the US. So the idea that they Pontiac/GM slapped a GTO emblem on the car is totally false. They did however put an arrowhead on it. Holden had already identified it as a GTO starting on 2001, 3 full years before it was sold in the US.

Since GM and Holden merged in 1931 they have had decades of making cars under the GM/Holden umbrella it isn't like GM put their emblem on a Kia and imported it to the US to sell as a Pontiac GTO. Pontiac isn't the only car manufacturer that used the GTO moniker, they just got the most mileage from it because they promoted it the most.

The people that say it isn't a real GTO are oblivious to the heritage of the cars model identification under Holden. Since Holden had no dealer network in the US the Pontiac dealers were chosen to sell the GTO model hence the reason it was branded as a Pontiac. Make no mistake, Bob Lutz knew Pontiac was on a steep descent, and tried to save the brand from the axe.

If you go back to 2004 the big wigs at chevy were feeling butt hurt that Pontiac got the reincarnation of the muscle car, and chevy got shut out. There was even a Holden based SS malibu/chevelle commissioned by chevy to try to get their own version of the GTO.

Pontiac once again in 2008 reached out to Holden to get a RWD 4 door sedan the G8. Again chevy is all butt hurt because the RWD Caprice was discontinued and chevy had no RWD sedans in their lineup. After Pontiac is crushed and out of business, chevy gets their wish and finally their own version of the G8, the GM/Holden chevy SS. From 2014- 2017 they sold a meager 13,000 units. In 2017 GM/Holden folds up, and chevy is again without a RWD sedan.

I just want to keep the record straight because so many people don't know the facts about the 04-06 GTOs how, and why they were sold in the US under the Pontiac name plate. It doesn't make them bad cars because they weren't produced here, I'm just shy of 20 years ownership on my own 2005 GTO.

Little known fact that in 1970 some of the GTOs were also made outside of our borders, they were made in Canada. 1866 Pontiac powered GTOs were built north of the border, and imported to the US. so foreign built GTOs aren't confined to 04-06 GTOs it's been done decades ago.

Exactly. Anyone who doesn't like a 2004-06 GTO never drove one. Them and the G8 were fantastic cars but they were never advertised very well. The later SS were a very good car also. They were expensive and very limited due to the small production run from Australia. I like to keep showing off my Firebird and wearing my Pontiac shirts at work whenever I can. I work at the GM Warren Tech Center and like to remind people about Pontiac.

In a fantasy world where Pontiac did come back for some sort of performance model (why else would you bring them back) they should recreate the 1998 ish commercials with the restyled WS6 Ram Air Trans Ams. I was a freshman in highschool at the time and I still remember those. I have wanted a triple black 4th gen with the big angry WS6 hood ever since.


Im with you that the G8s were/are underappreciated. I think that was just at the dawn of Americans as a consumer market falling out of love with sedans in face of small SUVs and cross overs. Writing was on the wall. We can complain about it, but its clearly what sells. I don't get it, they don't do anything well. Too small to be a real SUV, too big to be economical. Too ugly to make a compelling sports model out of.

Not gonna happen and i dont care for a rebadged GM Pontiac anything. Pontiac has been dead for a long time. let it go.

Thanks for the little history lesson Sirrotica. I didn't know some of those details. I agree with a number of people on here that some of the late model Pontiacs were pretty good cars and market competitive. Good looking too. I recently worked on a Solstice GXP for a customer. Both the OE Bilstein rear coil over shocks were leaking bad. Had to modify some Koni's to replace them. The OE shocks had been discontinued years ago. It was a nice little car, fun to drive.

I worked as a Pontiac tech in the mid 90’s, I had a 1994 Grand Am GT front wheel drive sedan & it was a great car. Looked really sharp for a four door car.

As a '64 GTO owner for the last 33 years, who has also driven one of the Holden/Pontiac GTOs - that 2004 Barbados Blue GTO was one outstanding car!

I never drove a G8 GXP, but my boss had one and I had several opportunities to ride in that car.

Pontiac Solstice - purchased an '09 Coupe from cammerjeff on this board, drove it home and gave it to our daughter for her 50th birthday.

All three of these vehicles were cars that a true auto enthusiast would be proud to own. GM was forced to close the doors on Pontiac and Saturn and Buick was saved due to the brands popularity in China. Buick had NOTHING worthwhile in the US at the time. Should have shut down Buick in the US and slapped a Buick badge on a decontented Cadillac and let the Chinese think they it was something special...

I had an 85 Grand Am with the "Tech 4" it was the slowest car I ever owned. It was very dependable and went 275,000 miles before it finally quit. Every time I drove it I would look at the word "Pontiac" on the steering in disbelief. After owning several GTO's and a 70 TRANS AM. It was quite a shock. Anyone remember the Daywoo Lemans? Another fine automobile lol.
I've been wanting an 05-06 GTO for a while now but they are ether beat to death or over priced.

To the original question, "could Pontiac rise again?". Not in any significant form, almost certainly not in any form.

It costs less than $1,000 to renew a trademark; even with almost no business justification GM would renew it just to prevent it from becoming abandoned or allowing others to profit from it.

I believe that Pontiac COULD become relevant again. Hyundai and Kia have taken away the traditional (non-muscle car) buyers, but I think even they are looking for something different and they don't care what name brand is on it. Fact is, it's not that people care what brand name is on a car, but the style, performance and price that will draw them in. That said, I believe that the average buyer nowadays has little connection to past Pontiacs and would likely view Pontiac as a newly discovered brand. Financially the brand may not be feasible, (at the moment), because Hyundai/Kia have quietly raised prices on their vehicles to the point there's no price advantage. In 2021 I paid 54k for a Cadillac XT5 premium luxury AWD. You'll pay more than that for a Hyundai Pallisade.

I agree it makes sense for them to renew the trademark no matter what. We heard the same thing when Fiat renewed the ‘Cuda trademark a few years back.

I don’t think it will happen, but a few counter points:

Look how many people are talking about their Grand Am’s? GM has nothing to compete with a Civic or Accord. Kids love the Civic SI… performance varies from person to person and these are very much in demand. It would make sense for GM to be in this market

Dodge has left a muscle car void. How many of us bought V8 Chargers? I bought 4 of them. Dodge built a huge fan base and then bailed on them. All of the comments on social media posts are how no one wants the new electric charger. Someone will fill this void - it could be GM

This girl trans am owner (influencer?) on Instagram really just talks about her white WS6. She did a video about what happens when she tells people she drives an old Pontiac and the official GM account posted ‘We see you’ which seems very out of character for them.

I got an estimate for a gas powered generator yesterday- the kid was 24. Saw my Trans Ams and said that was his dream car. A late 70’s or 98-02. He even asked if he could take a pic with the Bandit car so there is still a following.

GM is a sh!tshow right now. Went all in on electric cars nobody wants, has very few if any cars with any character, doesn’t have a car for nascar (especially since Cadillac will be in F1), people are scared to buy their trucks because the engines fail, the list goes on and on.

If you were the right person and could admit that you completely misread your customer base you could build a case to bring it back but it’s highly unlikely.