Replaced my FiTech
 

...with another FiTech.

About 1.5 months out from 10 years on the my car, I got to the point of needing to replace my FiTech.

I've been working directly with their tech support, but I believe that the coil driver in the original ECU has an intermittent fault, that has been getting worse. During cruise, this is showing up as random lean dead spots causing a momentary bucking. At wide open throttle, it's less prevalent, but it may drop spark and that sends a bunch of fuel into the exhaust where it ignites.

The system stopped creating logs, so I wasn't able to do much actual troubleshooting. It was still otherwise functional however.

These are infinitely rebuildable since FiTech is committed to backwards compatibility. However, there have been some updates to the throttle body itself and given the cost, it was kind of a no-brainer to go for a completely new unit.

I always said I'd be completely transparent about these things. So after 9 years and 10.5 months of service, I'm calling this a complete failure. I could have continued to limp this thing a bit, but after spending close to 10K on a new engine last year, I'm not betting that against a $1000.00 efi system.

My total cost of ownership breakdown is below.

FiTech + frame mount fuel system - $1122.45
Tanks Inc tank, with in-tank pump and sender - $468.90
Weatherpack 6 Pin connector - ~$45.00
Various fuel system parts including replacement fittings, filters etc. $202.60

Total 10 year cost of ownership - $1838.95

Call it $200.00 bucks per month.

In that time, the only fit the system gave me was when the main harness connector burned up. That occurred after about 3 years of service and fortunately did no leave me stranded anywhere. I purchased the aforementioned weatherpack connector and spent about an hour repining the connector.

The system has been on three different interations of my engine.

-455 based 462 with stock #62's and a Comp 280h cam
-Same 462 shortblock with as cast KRE D-ports and a mild 232/238 hydraulic roller
-455 based 465 with 310 cfm KRE D-ports and a wilder 240/248 hydraulic roller

It ran great on the two previous iterations of my engine. It has run good on the current engine. However, it's my thinking that some of the tuning issues I've been chasing getting this system to my level of acceptable on this much more radical engine may be a result of whatever was going on with the ECU. I'm just now diving into tuning the new unit, so I can't comment yet on that.

It's been my experience so far, that the FiTech's fuel very well. There's no issues in the delivery department. For milder combinations, the spark control is adequate. As the engine combination gets more radical, in order to excel at street manners, the spark map needs more granularity.

Ideally, I would have upgraded to a Holley Terminator X-Max which would have given me that added granularity, use of coil near plug and the ability to control my 4l80e without the need for the secondary computer. However, when I priced this out, at nearly 4K, I couldn't honestly say that the car was going to drive $3000.00 better. So another FiTech tops the engine.

Now for some of the changes. The throttle body casting and machining is much nicer than my original unit, especially on the sealing surface. The IAC port is larger and is cast into the throttle body instead of drilled. The throttle bore openings are machined nicer, without the step of the bore sleeve as it attaches to the top plate. The butterfly shafts now have counter-sunk allen head bolts instead of screws. Finally the mounting bosses are a bit more robust.

The harness is much improved over the early iterations. The relays, and fused circuits are now divorced from the ECU and the wires have been what I'm going to refer to as "right-sized." The load channels like the constant power and fuel pump circuits were 16 gauge previously (too little especially for the fuel pump) and are now 12 gauge. The ECU is now larger and without the imbedded relays likely provide better heat sinking and dissipation for the chip and memory modules.

The intake air temp and MAP sensors are now brass instead of plastic.

The handheld controller is much larger and the display is much nicer and more feature rich. The construction is not as nice as the previous model which was more robust and had a weightier feel. The new handheld is still metal, just not as robust.

Over all I'd say that the actual product is noticeably superior to the original iteration and they've done it without increasing the price. That's commendable.

Like the first unit I purchased, I'll continue to be transparent about any issues or successes I have with this one. Knowing it's limitations in granularity, especially on the spark map, my intentions are to add an MSD-DIS stand along coil near plug setup. That will probably be a next year project. Although it adds another box to the car, I believe allowing the FiTech to fuel, while having a much more robust spark controller can likely get me 80% of the way to a Terminator X at a little over half the cost.

Gold standard review. This should help anyone on the fence know which way to go.

Kudos to you, sir!

Glad you found that helpful. Hopefully others will as well.

These systems (to include most all TBI systems like the Sniper) are a great carb replacement and work well as long as you understand their purpose and their limitations.

FiTech was early into the marketplace and really helped drive the market. If it weren't for FiTech, many others would be slow coming to the efi tbi entry-level field.

They have improved, and are a very good system, competitive with the other top offerings. And, probably some of the best, responsive support out there.

Technically, the Holley Sniper is the entry-level tbi offering, and is priced very close/competitively with the FiTech offering, just to say. The Terminator X offering are a considerable step up, and not considered entry-level EFI.

I've mentioned it before, Holley wouldn't have stepped up their' tbi offerings if it weren't for FiTech.


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That's likely correct. They would have continued to sell terminator and HP systems starting at 3K, plus ancillary support items. FiTech really drove this market.

Quick update as long as I'm responding. The tuning issues I was having with my previous FiTech on my new engine are all completely gone. It's pretty clear that whatever faults were going on with the ECU on the old one was causing a fairly significant detriment to the smooth running of engine.

I've spent some time researching timing and fueling strategies more closely and I've been implementing some ideas based on that. For one, I'm no longer ramping in a bunch of timing as quickly as possible. Although the engine didn't mind that and it made gobs of torque, very early, by slowing down the timing curve, the street manners have really gone up and it's helping the loose torque converter couple better at low speeds. This in turn is making the upshifts and lock-up events from the transmission buttery smooth instead of jerky.

After a bit more drive time, I'm gonna try and find a loaded hub dyno to get some time on and I'm going to tune each individual VE cell, then lock down the long term learn and limit short term trims.

EDIT: Also noticed in my first post of this thread I said the nominal cost was $200/month, that's $200/year.

There is a learning curve with tuning EFi systems, it takes time to figure stuff out.

Try to remember, the OEs have 10s of 1000s of hours tuning, with sophisticated equipment, and teams of people to do new car ECU maps. It's actually pretty amazing that with the software being provided with these aftermarket systems are as intuitive as they are.

And pretty sure Holley does do work for OEs, which I suspect gives both sides insight.

Holley is a pretty big company, and have lots of money to invest in R&D.

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Here's an example of my fuel & spark maps.


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I wonder if that's going to be the norm. We are now starting to get into the long haul with this stuff. More time will tell.

I need to dig out my receipts but I believe it's been at least 6 years with a pair of Holley sniper stealths, knock on wood so far so good.
If I have issues though I'm not so sure I'll keep going down that path. I set the car up to easily go back to a carb if need be. I'll have to make that decision when/if I get to that point. They are a lot more expensive now than they were 6 years ago.

I purchased my Dominator EFI ECU in 2017 for $1990. Still works perfect, and just recently was superseded by the Terminator X. And the Dominator ECU is still available.

My first MPFI setup (in 1998/9) was an Accel DFi v6, they went to a v7, and then Holley bought Accel. The tech from the DFi, including the ECU, is what the Dominator & HP ECUs are based on, from what I understand.

Holley still supports the Projection, Commander, and Avenger EFi offerings, which is kind of amazing. Some actually look for those units used to run on non-performance cars. You can find some parts used still on eGay.

I don't think retrofit EFi or carbs around going anywhere, and suspect it will continue to grow. But eventually, those will be only for 'collector' vehicles, as 'power' will transition into other tech.

Back to timing control, CNP/COP is an option with some retro-EFi setups, which is pretty awesome. Having that option is nice, and using it is better than any distributor setup.

Personally though, I don't particularly care for the 'look' of those setups, but some of the 'creative' installs are certainly better looking & acceptable.

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Even carbs are crazy expensive now. There are some entry level carbs still priced well, but if you want something for a performance engine, you're spending just as much as these TBI units now. Pick your poison at this point, the money is basically a wash.

I did look at going back to a carb but the cost was going to be greater than the new FiTech as I wanted something with an onboard throttle position sensor provision, needed a bypass regulator for fuel delivery and would have needed a timing control box, or something like the Progression Ignition distributor to do what I needed. The Edelbrock VRS and the FST line seemed to fit the bill, but both were at or slightly over $1000.00 for what I needed. Picked up the new FiTech on sale for $900.00.

The cost of carbs isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned. I have a large stash of Holley and q-jets so not a big deal. Plus the car in question I kept the Holley HP because I had an inkling that someday that EFI might come back off. So it'll be a simple and painless deal if that day comes.

Im actually building a complete new drivetrain for another car to daily. I could go EFI easily enough but as of right now the plan is to use a spare Holley 3310 I have and a spare distributor to keep it simple. If at some point I do a sniper on this one it'll likely be all in with timing control but the reality is I get great drivability and reliability with the old analog stuff so it's hard to justify the cost when the carb and distributor costs me nothing.

Yeah, that works if you've got stock in a bunch of old rebuildable quality carbs.

If you're a guy just getting into the hobby that has purchased a project, you're probably not in the same situation.

If you need basically everything for some kind of fuel delivery, that changes the equation quite a bit. There's always the second hand market of course, but that still works in both directions.

Carbs are stupid money right now, I just don't get it. A street avenger 770 is $700, that's nuts.

A 'classic' 850 VS is $900. That's crazy!

Haven't looked in a long time but yeah, might as well do a Sniper. Maybe that's why the regular carbs are more, closing the gap to push people towards the Sniper?


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Hell everything is high now. You could rattle off any number of things that are twice the price they were just a few years ago.

Yeah, but there were other things I considered when building the drivetrain for this car. Honestly, EFI with a computer that would control the trans (I'm running a 4L60E in it) would be ideal, but there are 2 reasons I decided for now to not go the EFI route.
One, No one makes an EFI drop in tank for this particular car and I'd really rather have one. I'd either have to go custom tank (not interested for this car) Or a self contained drop in fuel pump. I'm not a super huge fan of the drop in self contained pump units in a stock tank, so I just decided not to go EFI. Maybe at some point in the future as these cars keep getting more popular a tank option will come along and I can rethink it.
Two, the trans control features in the holley leave a little to be desired. It'll work but it's kind of a turn off for me. However I'd live with it if the fuel tank issue changes my mind. Then there's a chance I'd do a Sniper with Terminator Xmax running it.

For now, I'm using a Quick 4 controller for the trans but keeping the engine and fuel management very simple.

I know cost can be a concern. Boy has that gotten out of control lately. The holley Sniper Stealth Terminator X-max is listed at $2350. I don't know, that sure makes a carb look pretty good LOL Carbs may have gotten expensive but not that expensive. Even if I went out and bought a new carb, add that to the Quick 4 to run the trans and I'm still $1000 under EFI, and I haven't even added the cost of the fuel system needed for the EFI so the difference is even greater.

Because of that wide gap I don't see carbs going away anytime soon. But like I've said before, the way they market these EFI's they really make it sound cheap to get into and entice the buyers, but I've found that's not really the case once you really dig in. I'd have another $1000 in a fuel system to finish it off. So I'm looking at a $3500 upgrade to go EFI. Would I still do it? Yeah sure, but a good EFI tank would have to be available first. I think Tanks Inc will eventually come around.

Rock Valley makes great tanks, I've purchased from them before, and they are more affordable than just about all the others out there. I have personally used them for 2 tanks.

The one I had done for the LeMans was a 26.5 gallon tank, and that extra 1/4 tank of gas makes a big difference, especially on long trips.

https://rockvalleytanks.com/

Of course it's more than a Tanks Inc tank, and it doesn't look OE, but considering what you get it is well worth it.

You can get the Quick 4 on sale now and then for around $100 off, but that would still be $695 with that $100 of. Event their' entry level controller is $650, so with a sale, it makes the Quick 4 a no-brainer. And they are very good controllers.

That gap between a Terminator X Max then makes more sense, and they have improved the trans control.

Regardless of what people say, the 'tank conversion' offerings as not very good. No way will they ever match a properly baffled tank. Sure, they 'work', but have drawbacks that make buying even a custom tank not too painful decision.


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Thanks for the tip, I sent Rock Valley a message to see if they can do one for me, preferably extra capacity if possible. See what they say. I actually wouldn't mind upgrading the fuel system first, even with the carb, as I usually do with most cars, and just run it that way for a while. Then I can decide to switch to EFI at some point later when it's convenient and have a fuel system ready to accept.

At that point I can always give my trans controller to my son since he is doing a 4L60E in his car at some point in the near future. So it's not like I'm out anything either way, I can move stuff from one car to another and find a use for it.

Speaking of extra capacity, when I did the LS swap in my 72 blazer eons ago I had a place in Washington make a custom tank for it that bolted in the stock location. 40 gallons.

I loved that tank, it was fantastic for the long road trips. In my opinion the larger the tank the better. Frustrating to have a car with 11 gallon tanks, or even 17 gallon tanks like many F-bodies.

Rock Valley will actually take your plans and build to order. They used to have a blank worksheet for you to provide dimensions and shape. They will do whatever you want, much nicer that just having to settle with mass produced parts.

They have an FB page too:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61557935611790

If you call, they will answer, and their' support is great. They've been around a long time.


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I sold both my tanks here, and posted many times info/pics about the tanks, can search it.


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I recently did a Rick's tank in the GTO, and one thing I didn't care for was they could not provide a drawing or pics of the sump. All I got when talking to them on the phone was 'no one has ever complained about fuel delivery problems'.

Rock Valley is transparent, and will provide you with the plans even. You can use those plans to make any mods you want.

The 2nd gen F tank I had them do was for a blown app, and I used Fuel Safe sump, with 'wings/diverters', and one way check valves into the sump. I had them do 5/8 NTP fittings on it too for feed and drain. Also have them do mount pads for an external pump and filters.

https://fuelsafe.com/collections/mot...livery-systems

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Yeah I just figured they won't answer on a Sunday so I sent a message. Probably talk with them this week

They are pretty good about replying, and have seen them post on sundays, but yeah, norm biz hours would be better.

Found a few more tank pics, attached them...


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