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ATTENTION to new 69 Judge Convt owner from eBay Arizona
You just bought an expensive Scam .
Forged PHS document of a base GTO that was originally Q1 - 268 Verdoro Green , White Top , Black Bench Seat https://www.ebay.com/itm/13614043503...Bk9SR9b47-3-ZQ The Judge option forged onto bottom line of Invoice. Do the math and compare MSRP Another quick clue is Rally 2 wheels were not an option on 69 Judge , they were standard equipment. Repop Trim Tag forged to fool , different paint depth color and texture than rest of the black cowl paint Fairly recent swap job.. Restamped WT engine block to "appear" as a WS Bend over and say ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ............ https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/t-4AA...9m/s-l960.webp https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ahsAA...my/s-l960.webp https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/8rEAA...mz/s-l960.webp |
Description from the seller :
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Interesting story. If I was purchasing a rare car with high value. I'd double ck all the info. Call for PHS myself. Visit the car personally. If possible bring sheriff or state police with me to see their reactions.Not be in a hurry. There is always another car available. I'm no expert but those rivets look funny,like not original looking.
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The rivets are excellent reproductions.
And the reproduction trim tags are getting pretty excellent too. Where they always screw up is not making detailed close up pictures of how the putty in the original rivets looked before they removed them. They just mash stuff in there and call it a day. The biggest details are how they missed a few steps on their invoice forgery. And Rookie restamp on the block code. Can always make multiple excuses about trim tags , putty & rivets. |
The block stamping would make me curious. The W is very pronounced but the 2 letter isnt. I could believe initial stamping but I would look closer.At all the numbers and get info from a Judg expert.
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The only thing that could look worse would be a polished trim tag. |
I am not an expert.. not even close. This is a prime example of why I buy unrestored cars.
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I swear I can see a T in that S…
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There's an 8.5 out back. Not a bad upgrade for a fun driver.
But for a $145K numbers-match Judge? This base GTO has a WT that's been restamped, a period correct transmission, and the wrong diff. Even if it was a real Judge, rear swaybar wasn't until 1970. And this is aftermarket. "Museum quality". Buyer filing a lawsuit in 3, 2 ... https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1752460068 |
I hope somehow the grapevine finds the buyer before it's too late.
or maybe they can get a partial refund ,,, of around 90k+ |
There is a 69 Judge Hdtp currently on eBay that is also a lawsuit car.
Rebody , rookie restamps on engine and trans , corroded Framingham VIN plate on a proposed virgin rust free body. Faked repop trim tag that is 5 months off from the VIN. https://www.ebay.com/itm/26732216893...4AAeSwoR9obtZm But the VIN does match the PHS , and the PHS appears legit. Was a Pattern Judge , must have been a zone use car originally , and re-billed in July. They went by the Invoice date to get a trim tag made. That means they didn't have the car , just the VIN plate. 02A by the VIN of other Framingham Judges in the Registry Brand New 07B tag on the car. Seller had a shaky rep when in the NE , now in PNW Tony , formally of Custom Classics- Ninobolo |
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Buyer should always inspect or have inspected by someone that knows what to look for.
Sometimes its obvious but buyers get excited and make a mistake $$$$. I recently saw one that went through a auction that has pop rivets holding quarters and many things missing, wrong engine, quicky paint job, no tail pipes, thick gloss paint on cowl/engine compartment, and more. |
The forged engine stampings on the convertible are laughably bad.
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Wow! Brutal.
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Hope the new ebay buyer of the GTO gets their money back. |
the rear axle, thats not the correct 69 ten bolt
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Corvette M20
Transmission is M20 and 19S vin stamp. 1969 Corvette built is St louis.
Not correct Vin but date is close. |
Motor Vin
Lower motor Vin with last 4 digits stamped looks legit. I have seen motors stamped like this. Heavy on the one side and the rest was unreadable. Have seen many very light on left side with first three letters not seen. Many no stamped motors that were original to car. I can still see the circular broach marks from GM's circular broaching mill. No one does that type of broaching anymore.
Motor sequence number looks legit. Agreed the S is suspect. But the W is correct. Very odd. So the theory of a forged paperwork fits. They had to forge the Judge on the PHS to get this to work out. To bad the original GTO conv 4 speed is worth a little money also but not Judge money. |
Invoice forgery is so easy to prove.
That leads to deception of trim tag. Restamps So on and so forth. A lawyers dream lawsuit. |
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It's the original WT engine for the Green GTO that started the whole mess. The VIN stamp looks legit - because it is - it's the original WT engine. The EUN is in perfect sequence - it's the original born with WT engine. The fly cut marks look legit down low - because they are untampered. They didn't change any of that. Up top - the W is incorrect for 69 WS The center peek was low on 69 WS High on 69 WT and WW < like these W's The S is clearly an afterthought to any trained eye with 20/20 or decent glasses. That is what they changed on the block , and a quick wipe with lacquer thinner down to the cast iron will show someone's handy work. Then there is the obvious Invoice Fraud Which ties directly to the Trim Tag Fraud to help unify the displayed color combo. If you get the full VIN and run the PHS , it will come back as the Green WT GTO. They didn't change the VIN of the car or the Build Week on the Trim Tag. Even the original correct dated JA wheels are still present. It was a highly intact WT Green convertible. Someone wanted to fraudulently create a more desirable and valuable car. And some dimwit made their mission complete. |
Maybe the Auction company ought to be contacted about this.
Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2023 using Tapatalk |
Would the buyer have any recourse action in this case?
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Yes , but the sooner the better.
He would have to file in the sellers state and county , and have a really sharp lawyer that could attend to it there locally. Wouldn't hurt to have Marisa Tomei and Vincent Zambini on the case. This is a heavy act of total fraud. But also negligence on the buyer. Real McCoy as presented would be about 180+k so contempt and intent are evident. |
And now the seller ‘ninobolo’ has another 69 Judge for sale on ePay. @BVZ, this one is from our neck of the woods (Bob Neil in W-S)
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Someone evidently bought the rebody - restamp Hardtop 69 Judge he had listed.
The Winston-Salem Judge is snazzy with white vinyl roof and interior. But he doesn't show any pertinent aspects to see. Documented 1 of 4 Of course that means he only found 4 others listed in The 69 Judge Registry. He should have used The Registry before he had the trim tag made for the rebody car. My 65 came from Neil in W-S . |
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