PHS temporarily down
 

I've been waiting on PHS for a while, so I contacted them. Apparently their microfilm reader took a dump, and they can't get any orders out.

They're working on it, but no eta yet.

Just a heads up

Does it concern anyone else that there is apparently only one copy of these records and it only exists on fragile obsolete media?

I don't know the ins and outs of the business arrangement/model but guessing digitizing this stuff is cost prohibitive, but would really suck if something happened to these records and they cease to exist at some point.

It is pretty concerning. Has anyone spoken to him about digitizing it? He doesn't have to share it. That would make his job a lot easier, and it would also provide protection in case of some kind of disaster.

Digitizing could also enhance the quality of the material, as these films are fading terribly.

There are third parties which will do this, without the need for PHS to invest in the hardware and software. Perhaps it could be offered as an upgraded service level to offset the cost.

As an example:

https://thecrowleycompany.com/scanne...el-technology/

Crowley offers a digitization service, and can restore/enhance the original images in the process.

Slightly concerning. It would suck if it went away. The Pontiac world would definitely be worse off.

It's going on 15 days since I ordered it. Not a huge deal for me, as I've owned the car 14 years, so I basically know what it is. Sucks for the guys who are potentially looking at a vehicle to purchase or document tho.

I read an article a few years ago that I wish I would have saved. It claimed the microfiche is degrading faster than they can retrieve the info. PHS's plan was to retrieve all info, not just the requests from car owners. Call PHS and talk to the owner, Jim. He was very open and willing to discuss business when I got my PHS docs years ago.

That is some bad news. Hope it gets squared up soon.

There have already been numerous offers to help with digitizing the data.
He doesn't want anyone near the data for any reason.

I can understand the most underlying issue to that.
Any entity or company that performs the processes could easily keep a mirror copy of all the data.
Who can you really trust anymore ?

If that were to happen , the second party has unrestrained ability to compromise or resale.
Could even start making plain GTOs into documented RamAir IV cars for additional charge.

If the data ever becomes corrupt it potentially makes everyone's PHS worthless.
If the data ever becomes destroyed it also makes them practically worthless.
There will be no way to cross proof anyones presented document.
At some point - it's all going downhill either way.

He should have been digitizing or doing backup copies of every car that has been done in the past , as he went along. At least previous paying customers cars would retain verifiable cross proofing ability into the future.

Sounds like they need an emergency tech and legal consult. I'd help fund that if someone who knows how could set it up.

A couple guys have offered free service on doing the 69 70 models , just to get all the Judge and Ram4 data completely square to the bone.
Colors data , option data , etc....
Basically each car could have a 1 of Blank number like a Ford Marti report.

It needs to be done before too much is lost.

Yes. A problem.
For example The theory is that in the last 10 years microfiche film degrades at a rate more than the 30+ years prior. The next ten years? What happens then?
There has been zero interest in digitizing this data. No reason other than……………
Have you ever seen an example of a PHS from today vs the same one from say 20 years ago?
Scary.
Wish it were different but this has been brought up so many times there is almost no chance of things changing.
What happens when there is not a 3rd party to verify a car? That’s when the fraud creeps in.
A beautiful resource that is slowly (and now a little quicker) going away day by day.
Sad.

It will be like every other car line. Usually you can’t get info. Maybe Cadillac
Has anyone looked for a reader to help him out?

This is easily handled through legally binding non-disclosure agreements. Standard procedure to protect proprietary info.

I thought I read somewhere that PHS has been digitalizing all requests since 2010.

I can see why this would be an enormous undertaking. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) of microfiche to copy with only a small percentage that people would care about.

We dont get actual paper copies in the mail anymore, only thru email. So I guess it's digital lol

Why don’t we help the guy out. Pool together, get him a new reader. Plenty on Erape
Is this what he needs. Someone call him. I throw some in,

Pretty cheap. If this is what he needs.

Microfilm READERS are just an inexpensive optical device like a slide viewer.

Microfilm DIGITAL SCANNERS are a whole different thing. They scan the film and digitize to a digital image. Often they are automated to scan each page of a microfilm "file". Microfilm comes in two varieties I think, rolls, and sheets.

You'd then need a database of some kind to store all the images in some way that you could retrieve them easily by VIN.

I’ll call mattison and see what he needs.

I gave Jim the suggestion of digitizing the records many years ago. At the time, he had zero interest, because of costs. It seems as if he just wants to ignore the problem and that it will go away. With how much funding could be generated from the entire Pontiac community, I don't understand his thinking.

Best bet would be to turn over everything to the Pontiac Museum.
They will get it all taken care of properly , and digitized.

They also have strong backing support , and network.
Would revitalize the data instead of just sitting on it for 35 years.

I'll leave my own thoughts to myself.

Hopefully it gets straightened out.

I'll say this... It sucks spending $110 for a service, with nothing indicating there's a problem with the service that could potentially lead to long wait times.

Not to mention it's only an email now. Cost went up and we get less, but that seems to be the business motto now.

My exact thoughts also!

PHS
 

This was posted on Facebook yesterday morning.


PHS
Yesterday at 10:38 AM
·
We were hoping to have a better update right now but we still do not have our computer back. We did talk to the repair shop yesterday and they think the new one will work.
Again, sorry for the delays on the information packages
PHS

Coming up on week 3

As an IT engineer and network architect, I can tell you that people stick with technologies and solutions with which they have become comfortable (not a criticism, but an observation; I'm like that, myself). Still, sometimes this resistance to change can lead to a host of unexpected bad happenings (failure of old hardware, continued - and accelerated - deterioration of source materials, etc.). I've been down this route with clients sticking to old backup solutions using tape media which may indeed be fine, but getting the reader(s) serviced to access those archival backups - when critically needed - has proven challenging (and costly) in the past.

Still, it's not our business to run, and Jim needs to make these decisions. I like the idea of partnering with the Pontiac Museum, however, no matter which way Jim decides to go with his internal technology.

I remember the "old" days, when you could call Pontiac and get a copy of your invoice. I did this in 1983 when I bought my Can Am. The blacked out the prices but I was only trying to make sure it was original. They also used to put a copy of any ads they had of the car.

PHS
2h
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10/24 update. Our old computer does not seem like it can be saved, so we ordered a new scanner today so we can use a newer computer. We should have it next week and can start getting customers their orders sent back to them
PHS

Today’s post

Well that's good. I'd hope this would be a wake up call to modernize the operation, but I have a feeling it won't.

As much as things about this service may be annoying we should be happy we have it . How many rare cars have been found and restored / preserved because of this service. Which litterally was thrown in the trash bin of history by GM.

Some of you may remember years ago, when PMD still existed.
They tried to gain control of what was then legally Jims & he had to fight hard to keep the records.
PMD would have ultimately destroyed the data.

I don't think anyone is saying the service provided isn't great to have, it just sucks knowing that the service is struggling.

Nobody wants to see it fail. That said, if it dies due to deteriorating materials after being saved from certain destruction if GM had their way, it would be a head scratcher as to why it wasn't preserved better.

It takes money

No one wants to throw any money towards keeping it running. ?

Guys are already throwing $110 for what amounts to an email every time they use the service.

Service cost has risen, and any cost associated with printing, packaging and shipping has been eliminated. Unfortunately, if it cant sustain itself now, it never will.

I see a "package" increase coming. Instead of lowering it to entice people who are turned off by the price and generating faster income.

It's the way of the world now. Pay more, get less. It's actually why I didn't get PHS for this car for 14 years. I pretty much already knew what it was, but curiosity finally got the best of me.

Marty reports for Ford products is still affordable though, and you get a good amount for the money.

Does it take money to preserve this stuff? Certainly. Could some of that possibly be mitigated by a volunteer effort? Not my business, but I do shudder to think that some 'geek squad' type may be working on the current issues they are having.

From a financial perspective I imagine preserving these records is a losing proposition moving forward. I would tend to think PHS' heyday has been in the rearview mirror for quite some time.

There is a large - but finite - number of surviving Pontiacs that PHS covers. A lot of them already have PHS docs. Sure people are going to order it for the occasional project or rare car they need confirmation on (64/65/74 claimed GTOs, RAIV, etc.), but if I had to guess the number of orders they fulfill these days are a fraction of what they were say 20 years ago.

If I had to guess the information that exists will be milked for whatever value remains - likely jacking up prices to try and make up for lack of volume until the situation is untenable. Then, who knows what will happen - hopefully there is an opportunity for to save what may be left, but based on the little I know and the current vibe, it seems doubtful.

I wonder what the perceived/actual value of the archive would be these days and what strings/headaches would come along with it if it were available for purchase at some point, or if there is even some sort of succession plan in place?

It has always baffled me why Pontiac seems a bit like the stepchild when it comes to records and documentation. Some of the other marques have outstanding public domain data, much of it assembled by enthusiasts and offered for free to the community. Some marques still have "classic" data supported by the manufacturer.

It would be interesting to know how many cars are looked up per week or month. We had a car done 6 months ago and before that was about 5 years and maybe 6-7 over 25 years. It has changed dramatically you used to get dealer pictures and kind of a formal letter but as said it’s just emailed to you now. With that said it still has all the necessary information to know all about the car you’re checking on. Years ago you could get a quick reply on a car if you were looking at one for sale. I could have used that this last time it was a stressful week waiting for it to come to know what we were looking at before someone else did.

personally i cant believe anyone could complain about getting proof positive documentation on what a car really is for the price. goodness its worth way more than that on rare cars and should increase the value of any car more than a couple of hundred dollars. people will complain even if it was free.

We all wish we could have a Marti Report, yet the most popular make has nothing but a 'Birth Certificate' stating Invoice Date and shipped to dealer. *
No wonder there's 10 gazillion SS Chevys out there.

* Except Corvette

Well then don’t complain when it stops. I don’t need it, I did my car when it was 35$ and sent from Pontiac.

I was looking for something else and came across some of the earlier discussions, in case anyone wants a trip down memory lane.

2011:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...light=Basement

2013:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...light=Basement

2022:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...light=Basement

To those who may discount the value of the up-sell, I paid for my PHS stuff within the last couple of years, even though my '63 has been in the family for 60 years. I would gladly pay an additional amount (within reason) *now* for "digitally enhanced" documentation.

Going forward, a 2-tier service (optical scan vs scan + digitized) would be a great expanded model, but it's not my business, and Jim will do what he deems best for his business.

If $110 for an email isn't enough to keep it going, no amount of donations will. Donations usually only come in a single wave, and once that money is gone, the company is right back where it was.

Appears it's back up and running! Got my information today.

PHS
Yesterday at 2:25 PM
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10/30.....BIG UPDATE. We now have our new scanner and computer set up. We will start getting orders back to customers as fast as we can. But please be patient as it will take some time
PHS

I think they are back!!!

A nice donation from here would have went a long way, might even seen Mr Mattison on here to ans questions :-ohwell:

IME, making contributions to a commercial enterprise rarely ends well. If there is no compelling business model to sustain the entity, it's just forestalling the inevitable.

Now, Mr. Mattison could have been invited to join the discussion here and solicited input from the group, but I suppose he wasn't asked.

To be clear, I'm not averse to donating money, just not to commercial businesses. And of course, since donations are by definition voluntary, I would not seek to obstruct or prevent anyone from donating whatever he wanted wherever he wanted (so long as the cause wasn't something likely to bring harm to anyone, obviously).