Decode Body Plate
 

Stumbled across this and can not find info on the X after date, the X in option group 1 and the O in group 5.

The 'X' is for power windows I think.
The '5O' is for Decor group or chrome molding maybe?
(don't know the 'X' after date at the moment)

:confused:

The X after date is still a mystery.
On the early 1965 with dates 08, 09 there is this X.
Keith Seymore may know as he has this on his very early ‘65.

Your Red Data plate shows 11A = first week of Nov. 1964.
216-B = Red interior with Buckets.
C-2 = Cameo Ivory with Black Top.
XO = X ? / O Mirror group ??
2BGP = 3 Speed manual transmission / Console / Back-up lamps.
3B = Rear window defogger.
5NO = GTO / Seat belt delete.

The above is my best guess with information I have.

Below is information pertaining to my Original Unrestored 11A Baltimore build ‘65.

Thanks! The O in group 1 is still somewhat puzzling.

I have found in Eric White´s GTOAA guide that O in group 1 would be Two Tone Color with a chrome divider, while others (Pete McCarty?) says O in group 1 means "Mirror group" (vanity etc.)

BTW, the GTOAA guide says Y in group 1 would be power windows, while others say X are the power windows. I guess X is correct.

Found the O in group 5, it would be "Decor group" - LeMans only.
And since the GTO is an option on LeMans 1965, code N, the O after N would be legit.

Thanks! I think your guess is close.
Since this GTO was sold new (export) in Sweden the X may mean Export?
AFAIK all GTO´s imported to Sweden by GM Nordiska (Motorami) got the rear window defogger and the seat belt delete option (the US belts was not approved for use in Sweden these years).

No new info regarding the X after the date code.

Been looking at that for about 50 years and still haven't figured it out.

Do you have the VIN for this car? I can add it to my registry.

K

The O in Group 1 is the Trim Molding for Vinyl Top or 2tone
X is Pwr Windows

The O in Group 5 is Seat Belt Delete
W would be deluxe belts
( unrelated - Z was for Standard seat belts up until Jan 64 )

Here is what i have found (so far) on the option codes on the Fisher data plate:

Group 1

D = Power top/convertible

E = tinted glass/all windows

O = mirror group (vanity, etc.)

T = power bucket seat

W = tinted glass/windshield

X = power windows

Group 2

A = foam front cushion (non-GTO)

B = floor mounted 3-speed syncho-trans

E or K = air conditioning (differs in ducting)

G = console

H = heater delete

L = 4 speed floor shift

M = auto trans 1964

P = radio, 1964-1965

R = rear seat

S = rear manual antenna

T = rear power antenna

U = 8 track tape system

V = Verbra-Phonic rear speaker

W = 2 speed auto trans 1965-1967

Y = padded dash

Z = 3 speed(M40) auto trans 1967

Group 3

B = rear window defogger

K = dome reading lamp 1964-1965

N = roof rail reading lamps

Group 4

F = outside remote mirror

Q = full size spare tire 1967

Group 5

N = GTO option 1964-1965 (PON/KC only)

O = décor group-LeMans only (seat belt delete-GTO´s)

W = retractable seat belts 1964-1965

Y = custom seat belts

Z = seat belt delete (1964 Pontiac Plant)

Kenth that old chart is flawed.
It's a cheat sheet made from Chevy codes , most work , some don't.
It's posted everywhere from Chevelle sites to GTOAA site.
John V. already debunked most of the debunkers on the list.

1 O is the belt line divider molding ,,,, 2tone/vinyl top

2 P is Back Up Lamps
Pontiac didn't code for Radio

3 P is Padded Dash (former mystery code)

5 O is Seatbelt Delete
5 W is deluxe seatbelts
5 Z is Standard seatbelts

Will post some debunks over the next few days.
Working on several other Pontiac assignments right now.
And the site is giving me a fit today.

Quick and Easy debunk of 2P

This car was sparsely optioned , so it's easy to deal with.
Non- Radio , with Back Up Lamps
Coded 2P
# Debunked radio code #

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...qgBptNyEQ&s=10

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=1536%2C2048

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=2048%2C1536

https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content...it=2048%2C1536

John V. was having trouble authenticating 3P as padded dash.
Lack of study samples.
A couple of specimens on BaT lately proving out 3P as padded dash.

Also some seatbelt specimens to debunk the mixed up 5 O and 5 Z codes

That list should be banned , and a correct list reconstructed and distributed.
BaT uses that list too , and ignore corrections.

Looks like they killed my picture linking.
They were working when first posted.

Code 2P
Radio DeBunk
Car is Non-Radio ,,,, with Back Up Lamps

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765489793

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765489855

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765489874

I recently submitted a 1964 GTO, Kansas City car.... PHS advised that they couldn't tell me all options because chevrolet controlled KC plant in 64, would I like to proceed? I asked well my determination (for what to do) on this car is whether it is a real tri power car or not, has a 5N, so I know it is GTO.... They elaborated yes, they can tell/know drive train but also 5N does not dictate GTO... They didn't elaborate on the reasoning...

I did proceed with them, car is a 4bbl, real GTO.... but it leaves me questioning what is the exception or an example of a 5N lemans out of KC(?)

I would imagine they meant that the cowl tag does not make it a "GTO"
It is very easy to swap a GTO tag on a car and call it a 'GTO'.


:)

I agree with John .
A swapped trim tag - or reproduction trim tag - could skewer reality on a 64-65 from KC or PMD plant.

On a pure virgin car , the 5N rule holds true though.

The option codes on KC car manifests don't all match up with PMD order sheets.
PHS doesn't have the proper glossary to decode all the options.
John V. created a proper glossary for them.

Sounds like you are passing on the car.
Hope you find the right one you are looking for.

Seatbelt Code DeBunker : Trim Tag Code 5-O

These next 2 are both Kansas City plant cars.

Quote from John V. - Kansas research :
Pontiac made front seatbelts part of standard equipment in Jan. 64
You won't see trim tag code 5-O before Jan 1 ( KC and PMD plants ) - it was a given.
After Jan 1 there will be one of the 3 seatbelt codes on all the KC and PMD GTOs.
5-O Delete
5-W Deluxe with Bright Buckles and open spool retractors
5-Z Standard with Plastic covered buckles - no spool retractors

Car has 517 delete code , and 5-O

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765662494

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765662521

Seatbelt Delete , from Kansas
Car has 517 delete code , and 5-O

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765663620

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765664024

Code 5-Z on Trim Tags
Standard Seatbelts

This PMD car has 5-Z , and does not have #414 Seatbelt Delete on PHS.
He just wanted Radio and Rear Speaker . Notice no code 2-P on trim tag (aka radio code debunk)
Standard Front Belts were built into the MSRP after Jan 1

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765679141

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765679174

Another 5-Z code without #414 Seatbelt Delete on PHS
This guy just wanted Tachometer , Quick Steering , and Ride & Handling , and in a Rush .
Standard Front Belts were built into MSRP after Jan 1
I have more 5-Z examples , but this should do it.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765679791

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765679874

Found a 2tone car from PMD built in January , but it had a trim tag from a Kansas Car built in June.
Or the owner had 2 cars and loaded the wrong photo.

Should be able to find another with 2tone or vinyl top.
Group 1 - Code O is the only code left on the Kenth example. It has no choice but to be the 2tone molding.
And have seen that in print on a post. But would be better to document an example.

And get a couple 3-P padded dash examples too.

Also noticing that 64 PMD trim tag does not code for Trans type.
But 64 KC does.
They both do in 65

Codes 3 C , 3 K , and 3 P might be more difficult than expected.
Going to take a group effort after I finish combing through prospects .
3 K does seem likely on the interior dome reading lamp.

They might not have coded for Padded Dash , or maybe only with certain conditions (year model / plant) .
Have some specimens that 3 C fits , and 3 P fits.
But ..... it's going to take some scrutiny.

Found a Kansas vinyl top car that isn't coded for the divider belt molding.
The vinyl top trim code was maybe enough for Kansas.
However it also coded the top as color 6 instead of 2 as listed on PHS.

Some grains of salt from Chevrolet codes .
1964 1965 1966 1967 in order.

1964 Chevy codes

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765760998

1965 Chevy codes

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765761583

1966 Chevy codes

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765761823

1967 codes

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765761982
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1765762019

Looks like GTOAA has some updating to do:

Yes , that's why I think they - or whoever - filled in some blanks with Chevy codes.
At least for 64-65

The 2tone and vinyl top molding seems it should be the same code.

66 & 67 wouldn't have a seatbelt delete code unless it was export. But Z could be correct for that in those years - I haven't gotten into any of those codes yet.
66 they became government mandated in USA.

Heater/defroster delete became export only at some point , I think 68.
Another government mandate.

My 66 YR GTO is an export to Sweden and has the 434 seatbelt delete, O in group 5.

Here is a another 66 export to Sweden and 65 export to Sweden, both are seabelt delete, O in group 5.

US seatbelts were not allowed for use in Sweden these years thus the delete "option".

Thanks for those examples Kenth.
Really a head scratcher how some of these codes concerning Pontiacs got in such a mess.

Do you know why they were not allowed in Sweden ?
That is interesting

I have noticed that some codes in the groups mean different things depending on the model year and model series and that some codes disappear when the accessory becomes standard in the coming year.
Some lists have taken some of this into account, but so far I have not found any list that is 100% complete/correct for, for example, the 1964-67 GTO.

I guess the Swedish Transport Administration considered that the original American seat belts in those years did not meet the safety requirements?
The general agent in Sweden instead fitted Swedish "Vårgårdabälten", similar to those found in the Volvo Amazon, ugly as hell, but safe enough.

https://www.bizstories.se/foretagen/...l-varldssucce/

Been using this tablet about 18 months.
This is one of the very first saved pictures on it.
Don't remember where or why I saved it.
Picture details say it was taken in 2017 in McKinleyville California

1965 2tone with Group 1 Code O

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1766033801

Here's one with the O and the same color combo!
2018 when I got it.


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1766059270


and the bhc pic

This tablet has an option when viewing pictures called "Lens"
It tries to find exact or very similar pictures using Google image search.
Was hoping it could find that tag I posted - again , and hopefully the BHC . No luck

Looks like there is no use of Group 5 Code O , before Jan 65 . Default of no seatbelts.
No use of Group 5 Code Z after Jan 65 . Default of standard seatbelts.

Interesting thread.

Couple things jumped out at me as I read thru it. Troubling that 2P continues to be incorrectly decoded using references that were published decades ago. Not to knock the seminal work by early researchers. But it has always been my fear whenever I’ve put something in print, bad info never goes away. I hesitated to publish my ‘64 KC/Balt decode article for that reason, tried to include caveats for anything that I was not very certain about.

BVZ, did you mean to say ‘65 in your last post? I don’t collect ‘65 data so wasn’t sure if you were referring to ‘65’s or not.

I did want to clarify the ‘64 5Z code. At the Pontiac Plant in ‘64, unlike KC and Balt, Fisher Body DID code the Standard Seat Belts on the Data Plate AFTER December’63 even though they had been made standard content. They were coded as 5Z.

KC did not code them after December. It was weird that they were coded at the Pontiac Plant at that point since the purpose was to identify modifications to the standard content.

No , I meant Jan 64
Thanks for the correction.
At some point others will read this stuff.

And does appear PMD kept 5Z , and KC did not , after Jan 1 64.
On 64 models.

Some of the 64 PMD Trim Tags I posted even illustrate it.
Thinking cap wasn't buttoned tight enough.

Does seem that all 64 and 65 GTO trim tag codes do interchange , in for what the codes represent.

I haven't finished going through all the 65 car samples yet.
Still want to work on 3C and 3P codes too.