Best intake for a 500+hp street motor
 

I'm building a 462ci, which is going in a 68 firebird with a stock hood. I'm trying to find out what would be a good choice for an intake manifold that can handle all the power this motor can produce and not be the cork and fit under the hood. I think it's going to be capable of around 500 to 530hp.

The intakes that I already have, are an old performer and a Holley street dominator. Which one of these would be the best choice or is there a better one that I should buy? I would appreciate any information on this that anyone might have.

Thanks

I have a ported T2 intake at around 600 hp.

Of the two you currently have, the Holley would definitely be a better choice.

Q-jet on a 71-earlier stock intake. With a Holley, I really like the RPM, but since it's a 462, a good shorter single plane and a spacer should fit as well. Will likely need a drop base air cleaner to fit.

The Performer is only good to about 430 hp depending on how many CID are living under it even with a big 850 and a 1” spacer on it.

The Holley would be the way to go unless you grab a Performer RPM especially if your year gears are not over 3.55.

Do you think there's a better choice out there that I could buy? I wish the RPM would fit under the hood. I know that would be a no brainer, but there's no way my friend is cutting his hood. So, I'm trying to come up with some more options for him. I've been researching the dominator and although it's been good results, it keeps coming back that it's going to be lazy compared to the RPM. lol He's just a white-collar guy that wants to go to car shows and fool around on the street
I doubt he will ever go to the track, but he wants the motor to run at its best, power wise. I was thinking about the tomahawk which I think is the Hurricane now? But I like the look of the Street Dom better, and we have it so unless it is overall a better choice, I'd rather save the money and use the Street Dominator. Maybe I could get a 2800 stall converter, and it will be good? Idk.

Thank you for answering my question.

when you use a drop base does it restrict air flow? What would be your choice of manifold that will clear the hood? If I don't have to, I'd rather not use a drop base.

I wish I could go with the RPM but I can't.

Drop base starts causing an issue when the lid gets too close to the carb vent stacks. On a Holley I've seen it when the lid was about 7/16" from the vents. Typically the airflow between the vents and the lid causes the carb to go pig rich at high airflows. Either it pulls fuel out of the vents, or pressurizes the vent and pushes extra fuel out of the boosters. Just depends on lid shape, vent height and cut at the top of the vent.

The stock iron 4bbl intake a real sleeper, they make great power below 6000 with a Q-jet. That could use a stock aircleaner assy. For a holley carb, use a single plane intake like a hurricane, it has a much lower carb pad than an RPM. Some single planes even accept a Q-jet.

If you have a few months in your schedule, I'd wait for the new Victor Jr coming this summer from Edelbrock. Single plane with stock height carburetor pad.

I'll be acquiring the port injection model when it becomes available and matching it up with the Edelbrock fuel rails and an Aces injection system for my 350/413 stroker.

In my opinion the Victor Jr will be too large a manifold for that engine. One of my cars with a fairly mild 455 that makes around 525 HP had a Northwind intake on it. Just on a hunch I swapped it out for a Performer RPM and the car picked up .12 in the 1/4. I think the Victor Jr and Northwind are going to be similar intakes, size wise. I think the Hurricane, Holley Street Dominator, or Torker II would be the way to go for Charley's engine

Probably not much difference but the Tomahawk would be my 1st choice, followed by the Torker II, followed by the Holley. That being said, there probably isn't a tenth difference between them all. The Tomahawk doesn't have a heat crossover, therefore it should run cooler and make help with potential fuel vaporization issues

I ran a Torker 2 in our 68 Firebird and stock hood with no issues. Was around 590 hp and 600 T. We ran a 950 quickfuel carb. If your running a Q-jet I'm thinking a different intake would be better. Wasn't the Torker 1 designed for q-jets?

Torker 2 if not a proper stock intake and Qjet.

I Was going to do that but then I was researching it and came up with the same thing that Gary said. So, I moved on from that idea. It looks like a great manifold though.

Thanks

I'm curious to why you have them in that order. What is better about the Tomahawk and Torker II compared the Street Dominator? I'm asking because I already have the Street Dominator, but if it's worth buying the Tomahawk and shelfing the Street D I will. I can't find the Tomahawk all I come up with is the Hurricane. Who even sells them?

Thanks

Ok thanks. I really wasn't sure how that manifold will fit because the motor was pulled before he asked me for help.

Edelbrock is saying the manifold is good for engines up to 500 cu in, but I did notice a significant difference between the carburetor version and the port injection version. The carburetor version has a power range of 3500-7500 rpm, but the port injection model is rated for 1500-7500 rpm. So I would agree it may be too much with a carburetor and the potential for poor fuel delivery at lower engine speeds.

It's in decent shape.

A fwiw for interest. I did some back-to-back dyno testing. The HSD intake with my HP950 carb and a 1/2" open spacer made 589.4 hp at about 5700 rpm on the dyno, this was on a previous pump gas 4.210 stroke 462cid street engine. With the same engine & carb my Victor intake with 1/2" carb spacer made 600.9 hp at 6000 rpm. Both intakes had a port entrance opening about 2.300" tall, and were properly port matched to the cylinder heads in use.

HSD / no carb spacer:
577.9 hp at 5700 rpm, 581.0 ft.lbs. at 4400 rpm.

HSD / 1/2" open spacer:
589.4 hp at 5600/5700 rpm, 589.0 ft.lbs. at 4600 rpm.

HSD/ 1" open spacer:
589.8 hp at 5700 rpm, 590.8 ft.lbs. at 4400 rpm

I know peak numbers don't express much, really need to look at the curve with each different spacer.

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The Tomahawk is patterned from a improved Holley Dominator without the heat crossover so if those 2 things interest you then the Tomahawk is better plus its cleaner looking casting without the needless vac. ports

do you know where to get one? When I search it, the Hurricane comes up. I haven't seen any Tomahawks for sale. Bulter sells the Hurricane.

I guess the hurricane on Butler's site is considered a Tomahawk?

The origional product was developed and brought to market by Pacific Performance Racing and Ken named it the Tomahawk.
Professional Products was the manufacturing partner at the time and they listed the intake as part of the Hurricane product line.

Next up......


"Speed Master does not make parts, they copy them."

Paul K's comment and a discussion here:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...omahawk+intake



Regarding the original Tomahawk intake brought to market by Ken Brewer.

For marketing reasons, the port entrances 'as cast' were very small. Be prepared to open them up unless used on unported small ports with factory heads. Also some of the runners need work, they are not straight.
Also for those who use a tall gasket you can go as tall as a SCE #128103 intake gasket without welding ( about a 2.3 tall port), BUT there is not much meat at the top with it for sealing.

As mentioned, I suspect all the copy cat intakes of this design with different names are similar.

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I went with the speed master - hurricane manifold. Port alignment was horrible. My opinion is Port match Holly Street dominator and go with that. I used it anyhow car does run real strong though.

I had great luck with a Tomahawk. Got down to 11 flat with one.
But, SD had it in their hands at one time so the port match was nice. Plenum had some work too.

A FWIW.....

The same situation on a Holley Street Dominator intake applies as on a Tomahawk/Hurricane intake if the ported cylinder heads have tall ports in use.

Regarding the intake gasket port height to match, you can go as tall as a SCE #128103 intake gasket without welding ( about a 2.3 tall port), BUT there is not much meat at the top with it for sealing.

The SCE catalog on page 203 states the 128103 gasket is 2.30" tall.

https://www.scegaskets.com/wp-conten...25.V3__WEB.pdf

This is not necessarly a recommendation here for that specific intake gasket. However I've used the particular gasket on all my ported cylinder heads over the years.
Every SCE128103 I have purchased and used had a actual port height opening about 2.320" tall.


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I wouldn't necessarily buy another intake to replace your Holley intake. As I said above, I doubt there would be a tenth of a second ET between the 3 of them. But if you were starting from scratch, the Tomahawk is supposedly a rough copy from a ported Holley intake. And, it doesn't have an exhaust crossover. Here in Florida, we try and keep the intake as cool as we can on street cars to avoid gas vaporization issues on carbureted cars. The lack of an exhaust crossover helps. If I were you though, I would keep the Holley and run it.

Ok, Thank you. Have you ever tried a Street Dominator?

Hey Troy, I can't find a Tomahawk anywhere, Is the hurricane the new Tomahawk now?

For interest, example of the need to weld a intake for tall ports:

https://hips.hearstapps.com/mtg-prod...75&format=webp

The engine combo used 345 cfm CNC ported cylinder heads.
Here the as cast Torker II intake manifold ports were too short for the tall CNC ports in the heads and required Tig-welding raised port tops in the intake, which needed to me machined flat and port-matched.

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I have a port match T2 on the 465 in my 1969 Firebird. It fits under the hood with a small drop base filter and made 580/600 on the dyno without any kind of spacer.

It sits on top of KRE 310cfm d ports.

I don't think you need any more intake than this. My car with a 4l80 and 3.31 gears, it's heavily traction limited in first. I don't pine for torque anywhere with the combination.

Ok thanks, it doesn't really matter, I don't think for me with or without the cross over because my heads don't have an exhaust crossover. Do some street dominators have a hole drilled from the plenum into the cross over? I'm seeing ones that do in some pictures I'm looking at online. I have to look at mine it's been a while, and can the street dom be run without doing the mods to the front runners or is that something that really needs to be done?

So, stock Torker II just with port match, no other work to it?

Did you dyno it with the filter on or off? I was worried about with a drop base it would be restrictive. Those numbers are more then I'm going to see so that's good the here ..

One other question. Out of all 3 was one more responsive than another or were they all around the same?

Not yet, but I wished I originally went with the street Dom. Plus, there aren't any provisions for factory a/c brackets. Butler's site claim hurricane is good for 300 cfm heads. That's what sold me. I have their 290 d ports.

Ok thanks. Sounds like you figured it out though. So, this hurricane you bought from Butler? Or from speed master?

With a spacer?

Same height as the rpm intake..it is higher than stock.

What carb are you using?

I have a 469 and am using a Performer RPM and an 850 Holley. Makes 580 hp and 590 torque. With a cheap chrome open element air cleaner and it just touches the bottom of the hood. I am going to modify an aftermarket Formula air cleaner to make the scoops functional on my 1976 Formula hood.

This is from his post in enine combos:


T2 intake ported to match ports, SCE gaskets, 1 inch wood spacer, Peformance
Carb and Speed 950.

You are correct.

https://edelbrock-files-v1.s3-us-wes...e-Manifold.pdf

1 inch open spacer. Port openings size out to a SCE 128103 gasket.


1.170 x 2.320 port.

My ported '72 HO intake made 558HP/579TQ on my 462. Swapped to a ported HSD and it went 574HP/594 TQ with a 1" spacer. The ported RPM did 571HP/583TQ. I like the hood clearance with the HO intake the best.

While it's not a "stock height carb pad", it sure looks VERY similar to a North Wind, which is available now.

I mentioned this in the link I posted. So there is no misunderstanding, the Holley Street Dominator intake, and the testing I mention, in post #20 here was done with an intake modified by Dave Bisschop.
Again, the entrance opening was about 2.300" tall, with some runner blending and plenum work.The Edelbrock cylinder heads in use were about 313 cfm when tested on my engine builder's bench.

Also noted, Skip Fix borrowed this HSD intake from me and dynoed his 455 pump gas motor in the 78 TA with it. Tested it against his ported Torker II intake that he spent a LOT of time grinding way up the runners and using a snap gauge to check width and height. The two intakes produced almost identical dyno numbers.


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I thought the Holley Street Dominator needed a lot of work to make power? What's this I've heard about welding two back halves together and doing a bunch of mumbo jumbo to make them work? Do they work with just a port clean up?

I got my intake from jegs. They had a promo at the time. I was going to have ports welded up to match and the one welder guy said he might have problems with China aluminum, so I sent it after I touched up the ports .

I believe that’s the original Torker that you’re referring too, many folks suggested that the runners weren’t optimized and due to the first design you’d have to weld two halves together.

Overall I think most folks agree that the HSD is good manifold without modifications but once ported by folks like Dave Bishop they really come alive.