Checking centerline on a Summit 2802 cam...need help
 

Looking for someone that is familiar with the summit 2802 cam. I checked the centerline and with it installed straight up I come up with 114. Since the cam card does not say what the centerline should be I am lost. I have read on here some one said to install it at 108 which I think should be about right. Anyone have any experience? Also cam card says intake should open at 3 degrees BTDC @.005 When I check I get the intake opening at 27 degrees BTDC. That seems off a lot. Also specs are given at .005 not .050 which is normal. I can go ahead and advance the cam 6 but I was just curious what other people have found using this cam. I have one of the dreaded 9 key-way timing sets so I don't know what I will get into when I start trying to advance the cam using that thing. The car is 70 Judge RA III, all stock. I kept the 10.5 compression. Dave at SD Performance did the heads. They have a little bit of work done to them but nothing radical, mostly just a good clean up with all new stainless ferrera valves. Thanks for any help.

I have basically the same set up, 70 Judge, RA III basically stock #12 heads with ferrea valves. I installed the 2802 straight up. Seems to run just fine.

I never really understood why a cam needed to be installed outside of the way it was manufactured.

There are Manufacturers tolerances for parts they make. If the slot for the keyway is off a tad but within tolerance and the same for the timing gears and crank gear, then when added up can screw up the cam timing. The last cam I installed I used offset keys and moved the 3 way crankgear get to get it right. You don't have to do it and the car will run ok, but why not get the most out of your money and work?

Summit's website has the cam card: http://static.summitracing.com/globa...cam%20card.pdf

It shows the intake centerline as 109 ATDC

Karl

:usa2:

Thanks, The centerline wasn't on the card that came with the cam. Also I guess the timing events are measured at .050. It looked like it was stamped over and was hard to read.

OK, makes sense. I guess next time I do a cam I'll degree it in.

A1 How does that cam idle? Does it have much of a lope? My other Judge has the pontiac oem 744 cam and it has a good idle, just a little lope, enough to let you know that there is some muscle under the hood. I was hoping the 2802 would be like that.

All cams should be drgreed to verify the installed position. I've had plenty of timing chain keyways off.

Cliff I know you have probably ran the summit 2802. How does it compare to the crower 90619?

Good question.

I've only ran the 2802 in 455s, and there wasn't much lope at all. I'd imagine it would be a little more noticeable in a 400

I have it in a 400 with a tri power. It’s exactly as you described- just enough to let you know it’s there. Obviously sounds best when cold but when it’s warmed up you can still hear it sitting at a light.

Just out of curiosity what lifters are you running?

I ran that cam in a 428. Installed at 107 ICL. Used Johnson lifters on it.

It idled baby smooth and made 14 inches of vacuum at 5000 ft elevation.

Ran "ok" was all done by 5000 rpm. About what you would expect from a 224 @.050 cam in a 428.

"Cliff I know you have probably ran the summit 2802. How does it compare to the crower 60916?"

The 2802 is a "baby" cam in a 400 build with 9.5 or higher compression and I don't consider it enough cam for a larger CID build. It might be OK in a 455 with 7.7-8.5 to 1 compression but for higher compression 455 builds I woln't use a cam with less than 230 @ .050" duration and even some of those I've used are pretty "mild" in the big 455's.

In a 400 build I've only witnessed one dyno session and it made 385hp, can't remember the exact torque numbers and I didn't build it here so not sure how much was left on the table due to minor things like valve/seat work, tight quench, degreeing the cam exactly, carb/distributor tuning, etc..

The Crower 60916 will made a solid 1hp/CID and up near 450ft lbs torque with small chamber big valve heads and 10 to 1 compression. The 60243 will make a bit more and is a better choice for 400 builds with 10 to 10.75 compression, IMHO.........

As far as degreeing the 2802 a simple check to make sure the intake is opening a few degrees BTDC @ .050" tappet lift would be close enough. Any time I've used a 2801 or 2802 cam in any of these builds I just install them "dot to dot" with a stock type Morse 3/4" wide tming set and do a quick intake open point @ .050" check and move on to something else. I will admit that I've only used a few of those cams in Pontiac builds and prefer them to the stock 068 and 744 cams because they establish a greater overall lift average and work very well in "mild" 400 builds. For the "max-effort" stuff neither one of those cams are on my list for any of these engines.

Anyhow, it appears that you have issues with the cam card but going from memory the intake opens a few degrees BTDC @ .050" tappet lift so 3 degrees BTDC at .050" would be more accurate than at .005".......IMHO.....

My 2801 dot to dot degreed right on with the gear set I used. Nice mild cam like stock in a low CR 400.

Interesting thanks. I'm kinda liking that 60916 for my 400 with #16 heads from my current 068. Will see how the RA manifolds and pypes system wakes it up first(installing now).

I like it that the 60916 has a lower lift than the 2802. With more power. How is the low end compared to the 068?

3.55s with a 200 4R in my car.

I would be interested to know why you like lower lift.

Stan

Just figured it would be less wear and strain on the valve train. Maybe not a big deal?