budget of the budget 068
 

I was browsing around and seen this enginetech on rockauto for 90 bucks copy of 068 says made in usa ES8208 same specs, probably wont buy it dont want to be crying a few months from brake in but who knows might be the same as the rest of the copies out there

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5576226

If you do not have lfters yet then a would yank 400 bucks out of your wallet and from Butler get there ram air series 068 Cam and lifter kit.
Yup, there Cam is over twice the price of what your looking at, but at least your assured of its quality and you will not be stuck paying twice for the same parts again if that 90 Dallor Cam is junk.

budget of the budget 068
 

I agree with 25stevem



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The 068 spec cam Rock Auto is selling will be from CMC, same company that grinds Melling, Speed Pro, Summit cams, etc. It says USA Manufacturer. This day and age no other company is going to spend the time and funds to grind old outdated flat cams. I wouldn't be afraid of it. You can verify it's USA made once it shows up and send it back if it isn't......

EngineTech is a company that re-boxes engine parts from other manufacturers and sells them primarily to engine rebuiders. They have been around for quite a while. When you open a box of Engine Tech bearings, King bearings are in the box. The 068 Pontiac cam you buy from them is just a private label version of the one Sealed Power and Melling sell. So amazingly, IMO you are as safe with that 068 cam as any other one out there. Break it in carefully with quality lifters and cross your fingers.

Jerry of Butler Performance in a recent Smoke Signals article claims they experience about a 50% failure in flat tappet cams regardless of the amount of zinc in the oil. Tells me most cams are made overseas with soft metals that wear quickly.

Flat tappet cams are so cheap anyway I don't understand the price shopping.

Buy from a known good supplier that doesn't raise so many questions and have a little piece of mind :noidea:

If you're worried about flat tappet cam failure, then put a roller in it and quit worrying about all the stupid gloom and doom comments about rollers. It's always something, lol.

Personally I prefer cam and lifters from the same manufacturer if possible. As I believe the vast majority of FTC failures are machining related, not materials related. I went with Melling cam and lifters, both USA made, no problems. I doubt Melling, or whomever is actually making either part .. but hopefully made to their specs, and hopefully have matching lifter crown and cam lobe taper.

I do typically follow that advice but on a few occasions I've mixed flat tappet cam manufacture with different lifters.

I've run Melling with Melling lifters that ran fine for years, but currently run a Melling with Johnson flat tappets and that is also working just fine. I've used the Summit brand flat tappets with Johnson as well with no issues.
Probably one in the same as Cliff mentioned anyway. But generally I do stick with with same brand cam/lifters for the most part.

We’ll just to see what I’d receive from the rock I ordered one of those cams, now the only thing I can compare it to is the crane copies I have one used and one new I measured all the lobes and subtracted the base measurement and besides the crane part number and date stamp they are identical.. I’ll probably keep it and use it in a future build Attachment 609320
Attachment 609321
Attachment 609322


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I'd bet they are both made by the same manufacturer using the same materials.

I'm sure both also have CWC cast in on the side opposite those numbers. This just identifies that CWC manufactured the core. I believe every cam grinder uses CWC cores. CWC may have also finish ground the cam but no way to know from those markings.

The Crane part number should be etched on the distributor end.

Curious if these cams are parkerized (shell/case hardened), or are they as-ground(nobody sells as-ground right?)

So do I win the prize?

I was pretty sure it would be the same cam. This re-boxing thing has been going on as long as I've been in the hobby. Pretty much one place grinds the cams and companies selling them even go as far as to change the specs slightly to make it look like something they ground "in-house".

If you take a gander at this list you can see how many cams are very close if not identical and offered from quite a few different sources:

http://www.pontiacpower.org/PontiacCams.htm

The 204/214 and 214/224 cams jump right out at you. They have to all be the same cam no matter who's selling them......

A lot of camshafts are made by the same parent company, which are then sold under individual company names.

I've run several non-name brand cams in a range of different engine platforms, and all have performed flawlessly. All had the same specs as the name brand stuff, all installed without issue, and have had plenty of miles put on them.

In short, I'd run it without a second thought.

I don't know how it works for auto parts, but my experience in supply chain quality management tells me there is room for differences across brands that are selling the same part from the same manufacturer.

Not saying this happens for cams at all, but imagine the true defect rate at the manufacturer is 5%. Then imagine Lunati's contract will allow only 1% returns before they financially penalize the manufacturer, but Summit doesn't put any limits at all on return rates. The manufacturer might decide to 100% test shipments to Lunati and charge them a little more, but might test only 1% of what they ship to Summit.

The good part of this is the manufacturer is likely to improve the overall quality to avoid that testing cost for Lunati and all of their customers benefit...

This is hypothetical for cams, but it's a very real part of the world and is just one example of reasons for the "same" part to fail more when sold by one brand than by another.

There's rarely any data visible to us consumers and we rely on brand reputation and experience from those willing to share. Unfortunately, these anecdotes tend to skew toward bad experiences and often scare us if there is an "excursion" at the manufacturer or they choose to sell marginally defective parts or "seconds" to one brand that accepts the risk to gain a better price.

I personally believe a cam manufacturer won't be shipping total crap for very long and the odds heavily favor a good experience, regardless of who is selling their parts.

I will also say the burden of "proof" on cause for failure of a part returned to a manufacturer is typically on the brand/seller. In the case of cams, it is easy for the manufacturer to blame failure of his part on the consumer or the lifters or the oil, etc., etc. which may in the end allow a higher rate of quality escapes for cams than might happen with other parts. How many cam and lifter failure threads on PY does it take to support this? :D

Which is all a way of saying the brands/sellers of these parts have a hard job and seem to do it well, given the complexities.

Life was simpler when a brand made their own stuff...

From what I see out there in the industry, it seems the hardness of the metal is not the issue. The issue seems to be that some cam lobes are ground with no taper, so the lifter on those lobes will not rotate, and take out the lifter and cam. Also, the lifters seem to be hard enough, but many are not crowned so they don't rotate, and many have oversized plunger bores, but only standard plungers are made, so they bleed down. Both conditions are very easy to check before installation. And I would measure each cam lobe to verify taper before install, too. An extra 30 minutes to basically have a worry-free flat tappet install. I for one would never consider running an aftermarket roller cam in any of my old engines. I value them too much and have seen too many catastrophic failures of roller set-ups. Does anybody out here have a roller Pontiac engine with over 70,000 miles on it?

I was just about to say the same thing. I wonder if Nyairguard can lay a flat edge across the lobe and see if there is a taper or not?

Well I measured the lobes on each front to back differ slightly a little over a thousand but this is with a dial caliper I’m missing my 2-3 mike, never knew or thought about taper on a cam lobe learned something new. Not sure what is a good amount of taper from the pic you can barely see it Attachment 609531


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I'm about to do a cam job on my 428 and have two HFT cams on hand to consider. I really apprciate this thread (THanks NYair guard for posting it) and previous ones too, Lots to consider here. I can use a straight edge like in the photo above (post #19) or should I purchase a micrometer and measure from the cam base to the top of the lobe at each end of the lobe to get an amount of an taper?
For the lifter crown I can put two of my HyLift Johnsons on a 1/4" thick plate glass her in the house and see if they rock or put the ends together and see if they exhibit a crown. Would one or both of these methods work or is there a better way?

(Not trying to hi-jack, just trying to get more clarification here, Apologies and Thanks.)