Having work done locally vs. long distance
 

Since the long and winding thread on the failed engine has been resolved, how many on here are leery about sending a big job like that across country? I'll admit I've sent a set of heads to Dave Bisshop in Canada, but I've never had engine machine work done somewhere I can't visit in person and the situation that arose in that thread just reaffirms that.

In most parts of the country just spending time at local events and getting some input from people there can usually yield several very good machine shops in the immediate vicinity. If for some reason an issue arises, as they can and often do, it can be taken care of in person.

I'm curious as to how other feel about this, agree/disagree?

I would prefer to work locally where possible, if nothing else for the convenience. I agree that typically there's a pool of talent around many localities that makes all but the very high end build or parts acquisitions very doable. Often at a lower price as well.

I'm certainly not afraid to work long distances where it's needed however.

That thread is a shining example of why I did not let Paul build my engine as was planned. My builder was only an hour away an when he needed parts it was cheaper for me to mail them to him than the gas to deliver them. I got to actually be there the day it was cranked. You don’t get that in a cross country build.

I too would keep it local and I believe I mentioned that in my first comment in that thread. OP had plenty of local Pontiac talent within a days drive from VA. Paul did stand behind his work thanks to the PY forum and I would have no problem recommending him to someone in AZ. Mistakes happen and he made it right. But yeah keep it local.

So..... A "local" guy can't make a mistake, screw things up or get defective parts? Don't kid yourself, go where you know they know what they are doing and have a good track record. Even the pros can have a F-up. Just watch any major NHRA event. And those guys are unequivocally the best of the best.

Couple conditions when it comes to this, one, when you talk to people about a 'good' machine shop, you need to make sure they're knowledgeable, in machine work, and assembly. Otherwise, even a marginal build will be the best build experience they've ever had. One of the biggest issue I see in general is cam selection. How heads are prepared is another.

Second, it's a lot different having machine work done and then you personally do the assembly. Doing so, you need to have the appropriate tools, and CHECK EVERYTHING with scrutiny, during assembly. If there's an issue, you take it back to be corrected before you move on with the assembly.

Around me, there's literally no one left for Pontiacs, they either don't have the appropriate equipment (torque plates, etc), or insist on doing the assembly. And I've tried them all pretty much, gave up. And the ones that can are usually very expensive, or have a backlog of years.

Machine shops, with proper equipment and skilled staff, that are specifically knowledgeable in Pontiacs, are a dying breed.

'Builders' are generally focused on one or two particular brands, and rarely are with BOP brands. The machining process is basically the same, but the assembly is more specific.

The objective I would say is to eliminate as much risk as possible with the initial selection of a builder and/or a machine shop, but even the specific ones can make mistakes.

.

This is the "street" forum, not the "race" forum, and my answer more or less reflect that.

Two "race" engines, one machine work done locally, the other sent to a shop in North Carolina. Both ended up being used primarily on the street. One Pontiac, one non-Pontiac.

Several "street" engines, ALL machine work done locally, excepting one set of heads sent to St. Louis. Three Pontiac, the others non-Pontiac.

As to assembly, a couple of the street engines assembled by others (package deal); all others, including the two race engines assembled by me.

So far, no failures.

Jon.

Body or restoration work, always do that locally. You need to pop in every couple of weeks to check progress.

I’d be comfortable buying an engine from afar, though.

There are good guys or shops out there everywhere. My previous shortblock was built at one of the chains of machine shops/part suppliers up here. I didn't know much about the shop..when I bought the engine from the fellow who had it built ..was just happy to have a rebuilt 455 shortblock. Nothing special..just TRW pistons stock rods new rod bolts..only paid $1800 CDN for it. This engine last for years eventually into the 10's..had no issues other than a little blowby at higher rpms. During that time ran into a few people that knew of this machine shop at this "store". Seems like the 2 main guys there enjoyed the BOP engines the most and had quite the reputation for quality work. I ran into an Oldsmobile guy a few years back that relayed the same info..and was 10 years plus on his bracket engine built by the same guys.

I have had two engines built across country.The one where the builder had his own machine shop went well.The other who sent his machine work out not so much.Im pretty much now only using shops that do their own machine work and the build.The V engine is my first with this shop so will see how it goes.Tom

If I learned one lesson from racing it was ... don't get involved in high performance engines unless you are personally, very familiar with the entire process from parts selection (or fabrication) to the final assembly.

ANY engine of ANY kind that is making 30% more than it left the factory making requires extensive experience and knowledge to build a good performing reliable final product. Knowledge of that particular brand/model engine, not a general knowledge.

Hate to say it, but if you know very little about performance engines, and you plunk down your cash, you are probably swimming in water that is too deep. Very much like going to a high stakes poker table when you don't know what you are doing. The odds are someone is going to take your money and you are not going to be happy.

This applies double and triple to vintage iron. You want a fast car but don't know how to make a car go fast? In the long run you are way better off going out and dropping $40K on some late model factory muscle.

If you don't know much about high hp engines .... keep it simple, keep it almost stock, keep it local. You'll probably be driving much sooner, much happier.

Distance doesn't bother me. People come from long distances to have me restore their classic cars and put trust in me. I do the same when I need something and know I'll get an excellent final product.

Technically, I prefer to use Paul in Tuscon for my engine work, which is a 6 hour round trip for me. I drive right past about 30 other machine shops in Phoenix on the way through LOL. Not that big of a deal. I consider that local, but to many here if it isn't in their back yard it's too far.

Now if I had not met Paul and become friends, I doubt I would use any other shop local to me. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to send my engines out to Tony Bischoff 2,000 miles away who built an engine for my father. Tony builds engines for people all over the country and abroad with a proven winning track record. Top notch and stands behind his work.

I really just don't trust too many shops to do the kind of work that I'm looking for. So I'm willing to travel to find it.

Hell an hour is just a stone throw, and won't even get you to the next town where I live LOL

And you not letting Paul build your engine isn't exactly how that went. Just sayin ;)

Exactly!! Local doesn't mean much, finding someone that does the job right is more important. If it's 30 minutes from the house, then that's great, but that is definitely not a decision maker for me. I'm not afraid to drive somewhere.

I gotta guy..... :rolleyes: LOL

Recipe for disaster the minute you hear that. Do your homework.

What would be nice, is if there was a public list around here that could be curated by people that have actually patronized the business. Business name, location, contact information etc.

I'll take a good recommendation from somebody with a good poncho between the rails over a google or yelp review any day of the week.

There are reputable shops around most areas. It helps tremendously to get out to car events, cruises, and hang around like minded people. The dragstrip is the best place, and just see who is using who.

That's how I found Paul. A forum member reached out to me, we talked, met in person, and discussed why Paul was better. When you live in the 3rd or 4th largest city in the nation with nearly 5 million people, in a classic car rich state and machine shops at every turn, and yet drive to another town for machine work, it says something. After I had tried a couple of shops in Phoenix, I went to Paul and never looked back. I could go on and on about why and what etc...

It's not that hard to look up accomplishments as well. Engine Master Challenge usually has the same big players at the top. Shops like BES, or Jon Kaase. Paul has been in that event as well. Other fields of accomplishments that says a lot about shops too if one cares to look.

Unfortunately that doesn't always work for everyone. While Colorado certainly isn't devoid of Pontiac enthusiasts, or car culture in general, I've sadly not had the same experience here.

I can pick almost any car show or event in the northern Colorado region and there's a high likelihood I'll be the soul Pontiac in the bunch.

The Pontiac guys I have met are great, but we just don't really have the options, torqhead being chief among those gents.

The machine shop that I'm about 80% certain built my shortblock doesn't have a reputation for quality, or being any more than a chevy circle track outfit. That said, my engine has been dead reliable, even after I've had my grubby hands in it.

The shop I'm using now did all of Joe Sherman's work and helped him with his Engine Masters winning build.Tom

Don't necessarily have to find a Pontiac specific shop, and your engine is an example of that. Even though done at a place with a chevy circle track reputation, it's been a great engine for you as you said.
I'm not familiar with the Colorado scene but I know what you mean about Pontiacs. That's pretty much the scenario anywhere you go. Pontiacs are sort of the low man on the totem pole. Even in our car rich state where there are literally thousands of classics on any given weekend doing an event somewhere, Pontiacs are still a minority. Chevy, Ford and Chrysler are the big players.
That doesn't mean however we still can't find a good machine shop. Pontiacs aren't that different from any other build and respond to power upgrades in a similar way. I didn't go to Paul because he just happens to be a Pontiac nut. Actually the first engine he did for me was a BBC. And his partner Jeff I believe is more of a Ford guy. But the 2 of them together build HP with anything they touch. Actually they do a bunch of the Nascar SW Tour series engines out here, making screaming power with high strung small block chevys, and Jeff was building carbs for the Nascar cup guys up until they went fuel injection. Yeah, all the millions Nascar has, with all their engineers, and they turned to Jeff all the way out here in Arizona for carbs. They also tinker in NHRA stock eliminator builds for a few guys with various brand engines. Paul just happens to love Pontiacs as most of us do here. But he builds all engines and gives each one the same treatment.
Dad went to Tony Bischoff for his last Pontiac build. Tony isn't a Pontiac guy per say, but he has done a lot of work behind the scenes for guys like McCarty developing RAV heads, and has won the engine master challenge 5-6-7-8 times or what ever the number is, and has done that with various types of engines. So he builds power with anything. Dad couldn't be happier with the outcome of his engine and it has done more than he expected.