Starters - Mini or Standard (OEM/Hi-Torque)?
 

Trying to decide between going with a mini starter (IMI 108, or maybe RobbMC) or standard OEM style like the Powermaster 3655 (hi torque) and a heat shield. I wouldn't mind keeping it stock looking, but wondering if that's shortsighted. I'm aware of the potential for heat soak issues, so considering mini.

This would be for my 70 GTO, mild performance rebuild, ram air manifolds. Original engine/tranny, but have made some mods/updates to the car for drivability...so not concerned with having to be all stock.

I'd like to make a more informed choice and am in everyone's experiences with either mini or OEM style replacements and any suggestions.

Also curious about 0 gauge cables to/for battery...thanks in advance.

Go with the mini without question!
They do everything right including pulling less amperage out of the battery for a given cranking rpm!

No way on the mini. why? those are for fitment issues using headers and although you will likely get the high fives on em they can be a real pain. lack of support at the starter gear for one.

your using ram air manifolds. I have the high torque powermaster, you will love it. now if you were using headers and racing, pretty much gotta go mini.

Hmmm...you've both hit on why I created this post. I am having this exact internal argument.

I go either way but I will say if I go mini, I'll only use them if they have the nose cone (pinion) support. Robb MC offers this option and I'd highly recommend that if that's the direction you go.

Otherwise I have no issues with stock starters, with RA manifold and with headers. They have worked fine for me either way.

I’ve had a RobbMc for years. 15? Good product.

I have been using this one in both bellhousing mounted and block mounted for years with zero issues.Tom
https://www.hitorque.com/

RobbMc here too. Absolutely zero fitment issues, can be clocked 360 degrees, spins the motor way faster than the stock starter and I have had mine for over 10 years with no problems. Even if I did, I would buy another one.
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/pr...c_starter.html

I’ve used both- I like both.
I will say this: On my old 68 LeMans, the starter portion of the ignition switch was bad, so a P/O had wired in a push start button(years before they became a thing-lol) to the factory solenoid.
After I bought it, I put a 455 in it and 4 tube headers on. I put new battery cables from AZ(prolly 4 gauge) and the largest CCA battery they offered in the factory case size.
That thing NEVER gave me a bit of issue cranking over!! 115* heat, sitting in the sun, heat soaked engine: Cranked right over!

my two cents - whatever you decide, run a Ford solenoid on the inner fender. That way you don’t have a big hot wire running a long length in your engine bay and it makes bump starting a lot easier too.

Either will work fine if set up right. On my old 70 GTO I ran a stock full size starter with both headers with heat shield and stock manifolds without. I put 120k+ miles on that car. On my 69 I have had Ramair manifolds and ministarter with heat shield for 40k miles. Nothing but mini starters from here on out

As for the 0g wire I am a big fan. I do this to all of my builds now. I can get it at O’reily or if you want the really heavy duty stuff go to a stereo shop.

IMI mini starter is all I will use and recommend to my friends. First, no reason to use a 1940's era hunk of iron that has a massive amp draw (plus it really, really hurts if you loose your grip and it nails you in the forehead). Up until a couple years ago I wouldn't care what mini starter was installed, but seems that what used to be a great product under the company names from Summit or Jegs now have some really loose tolerances. The IMI High Torque starters have remained a quality product.

0 cable isn't a bad idea if staying with the original stock starter, but the mini's have much less amp draw and don't need the band aid.

My only complaint with the mini starters that everyone seems to miss is they never have the "R" terminal to supply power to the points while cranking. Not sure why one of these companies can't add a simple "R" terminal, even for a small additional fee.

While that may not apply to some that have since switched to some other wiz bang ignition system, those of us that still use points really benefit from the "R" terminal, which is why I've never installed a mini starter on my own Firebird.

Curious for those using minis, what are you doing about pinion support? Looks like RobbMC suggests that it's only necessary under certain conditions (see below).

Recommended for engines with any of the following:

Over 500 cubic inches
Over 11 to 1 compression ratio
Crank trigger ignitions
Magneto ignitions
More than 18° of ignition advance during cranking
Locked out or no distributor advance
Electronic start retard
Any engine that may kick–back during cranking

So...is it not an issue on a relatively stockish build and not high compression (or good insurance either way)?

My Tilton is about 35 years old and works awesome! I do use the Ford solenoid. I bought a RobbMC for my Safari build. I do not believe Tilton makes a Pontiac starter anymore.

I'll second the notion to use larger battery cables if you stick with a factory type starter. I had heat soak problems using the repop oem cables. Soon as I went to larger cables (lost the factory ring clamp look though) starting issues went away. Amazing how much faster the motor spun.

I have had 2 RobbMC starters both more than 10 years old and work like a champ. No issues ever.

If you go with a mini starter, I think the IMI 108 or RobbMC would both be quality products. I have used an IMI 108. IMI has good customer service. I had some unique issues with an aftermarket flywheel and IMI was great with helping me. They are in California and responded to my emails and stood behind their products (im sure RobbMC does the same). As you know, a mini starter install is so much easier. I used to hate lying on my back and getting the stock starter in place - so heavy :( I have been beating the hell out of my IMI 108 for last 6-7 years - drive it all the time - stroker 400 with headers and no starter issues.
.
About "pinion support" - my IMI 108 is stock and no pinion support. This has not been an issue for me. I drive my car a ton. Daily drive it in summer - stop and start a lot. My car is no trailer queen !! I have not had any starting issues. I did use better cable going to starter (welding cable if I recall).

I use the pinion support regardless of the compression of the engine. And as far as I know Robb is the only one offering a pinion support for a Pontiac starter. I simply won't use a mini without the pinion support. Many years ago I used a mini on a daily driver without the pinion support, on a mild 9:1 engine. After a couple years of starting it 4-5 times a day, one day it had gotten louder and louder, as a result had worn out the bushing, started chewing the teeth on the flexplate.

Maybe on these summer time rides that might see 2,000 miles a year you may get 10+ years out of one. But when you're putting 10-12,000 miles a year on them they suck without the pinion support. LOL