Brass hat / zone manager car value.
 

Hey guys,

Does a car built by Pontiac and used as a zone or brass hat car have any more value than one that is not? Or is it just an interesting side note.

I have a 70 GTO conv that is such a car. While it is very nicely equipped, it does not have any ultra rare options or RA engine.

Just curious what others think.

Thanks

Probably has some more historical value than same car with no story at all.
The ones we set up or had visit were Not usually a performance model as they didn't want ANY drive ability issues, and didn't trust the zone managers either to not abuse the cars.
Common and profitable options usually are on these cars with more of them than usual.
Older zone managers often turned in the car at a local to them dealer, and many tried to buy, or did buy the car. We repainted 2 such cars to a different color after bought by the manager who liked the car and hated the Gold. Or silver color.

For me that adds little value. Yes may be an interesting side note.

When Jim Wangers liquidated some of his cars I remember one being a TA and I think it wasn't an out of line price at all. I don't remember how much though.

Maybe if John Z. it would add noticeably more ?

What shows that it was an exec's car?

The PHS docs show it is a 5% car. Also, even though it is a 1970, it was not sold through a dealer until 1971. As I understand it, if the build sheet says 5 PCT on it, it is some kind of company car?
I will try to scan a post a copy of it.

Build sheet

Notice that it was up for bid and sold to that dealer for the bid price of $2,300? At an invoice cost of half, that likely indicates lots of miles or some type of heavy use or damage while it was under Pontiac’s ownership.

Could this have been a promotional car? Or possibly one used on a television or movie?

Rocky,

The movie thing is a great thought being that the dealer is in Los Angeles. What gets me is the shipped date of 3/25/71. Why would an executive hold on to a car so far in to the next model year. Does anyone know what the BH-15 is?

With a ship date that late, I don't think it was executive owned. Usually, they only kept them a few thousand miles and they wouldn't have been sold for approximately half the value. That's where the 5% discount (and sometimes more with additional miles) comes into play.

I suspect the lots of miles, wear/tear, or damage of some sort led to the low bid price.

That document would be a dealer invoice that shows how much they (the dealer) owes to GMAC.

Most likely a dealer transfere with the 71 dates. Cross your fingers on that. GMAC did give % discounts on money owed after X amount of time when a new car doesn't sale.

Did your PHS packett include a copy of the original delivery invoice?

Clay

Zone cars (supposed to have at least 500 miles) or Class A discounts were significant but the cars were just sold as used cars, nothing special unlike the cars given to celebrities (assorted Sinatras received many) as prmos.

These were common in the 90's though do not know how far into this century that lasted.

Clay,

The PHS did not include a dealer invoice. That would be great if it were available. But I have gotten 5-6 PHS's dating back 20+ years and have never received anything but the sheet I attached.

The build date of the car is 1/1970.....which is not mentioned on the PHS sheet. Its like the car didn't exist for a year. The paper trail between 1/70 and 4/71 would be interesting.

I would guess Rocky is on target. Either someone kept it an unusually long time or it sat with some damage until they(corporate) figured out what to do with it.

One other thing. The box below the suggested retail price has "SP" in it. Special? I did a search on other 5% cars on here and some of those have numbers in it.

Just found something looking at my other PHS sheets. There are 2 types as far as the invoicing at the bottom goes. Not huge differences...but different. May or may not be relevant to this topic. Will put pics on later.

What you have is an Invoice , not a Build Sheet.

Start with re-contacting PHS and see if any of the earlier Invoices are still on file.
You have to ask specifically about possible other existing invoices and explain why.
Preferably speak or email directly to Jim Mattison
Some are - and some are not - it is hit & miss.
This is at least Invoice #2 , but it could be #3 or #4.
It is the Final Invoice in its paper trail , is all we can say for sure.

Next step is to drop the gas tank and hope for a Build Sheet.
That will tell how the car was tagged or intended - when ordered/built.
There could be other "found" Bsheet locations on 70's built at Fremont, you could ask in the 70-72 section about that.

With 24 - 997 it was under the Fremont Plant Umbrella - not a Zone type scenario. But of course they also had Brass there who got cars every 3months/3,000miles.

SP we call Special Bid or Sealed Proxy .... supposedly highest bid wins/buys.

GranadaGold with Sandalwood Buckets and DarkGold Top was not a hard sale color combo in 1970 , or today.

Your car had extended length use and likely high miles too.
There are at least 20 probable possible scenarios behind that.
Extended Testing by Engineering Dept (longer term observations) seems the best answer , but not necessarily the right answer.

Most movie/TV cars were sold (mucho discount) - or given - to the studios as promotional consideration/exposure.
I am not very sure they would have put them on loan to studios for extended length and let them run past into next model year as a loaner.

Some cars took 2 or 3 different tours of duties while under factory issue.

Good Luck with finding more of the paper trail :)

I own a Brass Hat 64 GTO Convertible.
It had the normal "Wife driving vehicle most of the time" as well as some mods to the vehicle: The first Mechanical Linkage 64 GTO set-up (from the drawing board) with parts specially designed by Rochester Products. GM/Rochester Products later offered a "Over the Counter" set of parts for sale at the dealership. Dick B makes a very nice group of parts for the 64 GTOs based on those kit parts today.

I would agree with the maybe "extended testing" possibility but most of the Ford Cars and Trucks in that "type of testing" were scrapped by the oems. Brass Hat cars were driven by shooters or their wives and then turned in after a specified period of time.

Tom V.

Lots of people, including me drove "Company Cars".

At least until 2019, when I retired. I still see company owned vehicles all over SE Michigan as I am going about my day.

I had been a company car driver (product engineering) since 1991.

K

Wow, thanks to all the heavy hitters checking in here. So much good info and opinions.

Baron,

Unfortunately, there is no gas tank or rear seats. The car is mostly a basket case. My only chance of finding a build sheet is behind the front seat backs. There is nothing underneath them.

This is veering off topic, but I used to own a 3 series BMW that had a sticker under the hood that indicated it was originally owned by the Chrysler Corporation, and had been used for some sort of emissions equipment evaluation.

Much more common than some would assume Stuart for the Big 3, even today.

We did a lot of that type of testing the first 7 years I worked for Ford, in the Emissions and F.E. organization,
including running the vehicles across the EPA cells as they never had budgets for that kind of stuff.

I tested a Lambo one time that we borrowed from a $$$,$$$ dealer from New York.

Tom V.