Possible 1969 Judge
 

I may have the chance to pick up a 69 that is claimed to be a Judge. Project car that has been pretty gutted, including the cowl tag. The vin is still there, its a real 242 GTO. Its a Pontiac plant car, and the vin is fairly high - 343xxx. The high vin leads me to believe it could have been built late enough in the year to be a Judge, but no cowl tag to show the date....I know I can get a PHS, but before I do I want to know if Judges were built at Pontiac plant. If not then I'm not going to pursue it further...Thanks

Yes they did eventually do 69 Judges at the Pontiac Plant too.
So its better that its a late car than an early car - for that reason .

Quick check on some files found a Pontiac Plant Judge in the high 2xxxxx range invoiced in late April. So the 343xxx is just like you suspected - LateLate

There's a hole for the RamAir cable in the firewall that non-RA cars won't have.
Is about as deep as you can dig - into the car itself.
Buildsheets don't seem to be existent for 69 P-Plant GTO/Judge - so probably not much hope in dropping the tank to look first.

Good Luck with it

Thanks Baron, the firewall hole is a good clue. Even if it turned out to be a non-Judge it might still be worth it if its a ram air car.

To be honest I'm not holding my breath it turns out to be be anything, but fingers crossed...

What did the original color seem to be on the car ?



What i meant by that is Bsheets aren't being found in those cars.
In all my Bsheet collecting past 15 years have 0 from 69 P-Plant GTO/Judge.
However, history has proven that there is usually just about always at least 1 exception to everything , somewhere.

I've never actually seen the car, just a photograph of the VIN.

It's a long story.....like I said, I'm hopeful but not holding my breath....

I owned a 69 Pontiac plant Judge. Found the build sheet on top of the gas tank, under the tar mat. VIN seq # started with 339***. This was the Limelight Green RAIII car I bought at Jim Bingham's place

Cool !
i remember the story on that car.
Did you make a scan or picture of the Builsdheet that you could share ?

We had not located any B.Sheets on 69 Baltimore cars either.
But not long ago a member found one on a Real Late production Baltimore GTO in the rear seat springs.

I too have my 69 Pontiac plant Judge build sheet with the letters "TAC" written in black across it. Sequence is 338...Still very readable and I had it laminated many years ago. Didn't know what it was until I did some research. I found it under the tar mat on top of the gas tank. From what people have said that is where the Pontiac headquarters cars placed the build sheets.

Any Pontiac built 69 GTO could be a Judge since they only starting building A bodies at the home plant in April, long after judge production began.

Got the PHS...not a Judge...passed on the car. Dang.

Curious , if someone can post a picture and point to this firewall hole that judge's had regardless of any option.

Firewall hole for ram air cable.

Have also found sheets inside the rear seat.

Also been told that there were no RA/VOE cars in 70 because both used the same bracket/knob/hole.

The hole means the car had Ram Air nothing more.

Best and really only way to know is PHS documentation. Many people in and out of Pontiac worked hard to make it happen, Some are still around. Pontiac was ready to destroy old records.