1964 GTO - Tri Power 4 spd Convertible Registry
 

1964 GTO - Tri Power 4 spd Convertible Registry: If you own one of these rare GTO's, please PM me and I'll PM you my e mail address or try desaljr@yahoo.com ( not checked daily ) to join the registry.
To be a member you must document with PHS that your car is a factory original Tri Power 4 spd convertible.Once verified members with have access to the documentation collected.
Not only will it be interesting to see what options these rare cars were originally equipped with, but it is also our goal to learn exactly how many of these fine examples are still in existence today. Cars can be in any condition to join the registry. Thank You ! Don

64 Converts
 

Don

why not make this a sticky?

Mike said he would

Don -

Saw this one on ebay. Currently a tripower 4 speed convert (It says PHS documented but does not include pictures of the docs):

K

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...76223962846904

I've always wondered, just what is the purpose of a registry?

One can never ever hope to gather a statistically relevant number of samples to reach any sort of conclusion regarding the type of color, trim, drivetrain, or option content of any mass-produced vehicle. Unless that vehicle is a small portion of the population to begin with, like '69 Trans Am convertibles.

Learning exactly how many are still left is also an exercise in futility. There are cars in garages, barns, storage units, behind houses, in salvage yards that will never be identified for a list like this.

X2

Basically does little and gives out info that some do not want to give out. I remember when Jim m was going through all of the PHS documents looking for RA-II birds to buy.

Tom Vaught

Purpose - FUN!
 

It's just another aspect of a hobby, and people will always be curious as to how many they can find/authenticate of limited models of guns, coins, or GTO's. Heck I would like to know how many unaltered original 66 Tri-Power Automatics "YR" are still in existence since only 1759 were built. In 20 years of watching, asking and phone calls I only know of 4 to 6. I'll keep looking because it's "the thrill of the hunt".

exactly Thank you I couldn't have said it better ! How many have I actually seen in person other than mine 3 . I had documented 12 or so about 14 years ago but didn't do names etc and some were auto . Bill has documented 19 65s so far. I have 3 64s documented and know of a few more.
As long as we are dreaming I would like to know how many 67 GTO vert auto on the column bucket seat 2V cars are left. I thought I read there were only a couple hundred of those built. Is it a high demand car not really but it is rare and odd as far as production numbers.

It's a hard top but ... PM me

Since I am the original guy who came up with the 65 Registry, and Bill Murrell graciously was the first to come on board with the idea, I will answer.

None of your f.... business.

It's a joke.

Actually, the first consideration was to get a possible sub-group of guys with a common interest and get to know some different people. That has worked out famously for the 19 cars, owners we have found. We have discussed a webpage, and a gathering of our cars in the future.
Another ,the second, is I haven't seen many real factory 3x2 4 speed convertibles
in my 24 + years in the hobby. So, with Mr. Murrell's talents, we embarked on finding as many as possible. Both of us have found way too many 4 b. dconverted cars. Fine, no problem, but, they aren't original. I asked Jim Mattison before embarking on this, what his educated guess was, after all, he holds the info, and he said,"alot" have come his way. That term needs some definition for the curious.
One great addition to our group is Jim Mott, who, along with Scott Tiemann, is one
of the great restorers of our cars in the world. Jim has found alot of the 19 cars we have booked. It is interesting to see the various ways the original owners ordered their cars,too.
The last thing, although we have found some "tags in envelop guys", we can say, if we sell, rare with a reasonable number attached to the ad. Sure, many are not to be discoved, but ,isn't it always the most fun on the journey, than the end result. I
liken it to archeology, discovering the past through digging. I once calculated ,using the best available information at the time, that there were about 2250 originally built.
There are more reasons, but, at least that gives some of you an idea ,"why?"
Larry B

Don, Bill Ryder, who joined here a month or so ago, has a great 64 for your Registry. He's a greta guy, I have talked to him about 5-6 times since he joined, after losing track of him for years. PM him, I'll bet he'll be all in. He uses his name to look him up. Larry B

p.s. I'll watch out for your cars, I frequent various possible sources.

I see both sides of this issue. I emailed Don personally 'cause I'm interested in everything about the '64. My '64 4 spd convert is a 4 bbl car albeit one that was converted to T-P prior to it winding up on a used car lot in Reno in 1966. I consider that an interesting factoid, but my car is excluded from Don's registry. Still I have offered to "participate" because I think it is an interesting exercise.

Larry, your point about discovering a circle of guys with a common interest in a particular car is a very good one. That common interest helps develop a camaraderie and if some new names come on board to this forum, I welcome it.

Isn't a shared interest and camaraderie a big reason why we congregate at this forum and join such organizations as POCI & GTOAA?

I also agree with Eric's points. I don't think you will ever come close to uncovering all of the existing examples for the reasons he mentions. I made a similar comment to Bill in reference to the '65 registry. We had a friendly disagreement. No matter. It isn't so important to worry about the ones that can't be uncovered as it is interesting to see what new ones can be uncovered. Just this week I pointed Bill to a '65 that appeared in the March issue of Auto Restorer mag. Hopefully he'll get to add it to his registry and perhaps there'll be another new member joining in here.

Some hobbyists get some satisfaction in thinking their example is one of a select few on the planet.

I have always found satisfaction in expanding the circle. Along those lines, I have always been interested in the "lesser" '64 A body models since they share a lot more similarities with the '64 GTO than differences.

It is impossible to track all cars that may eventually be listed on a registry. A year or two from now, a car will be sold and the new owner will be "lost". Keeping the registry current will likely be a monumental task.

I agree with Eric, generating any statistically relevant info from a registry will be impossible.

But if a bunch of guys with similarly equipped GTOs form a registry "group" and enjoy a little camaraderie, I see that as a good thing. Keeping it so limited has the side benefit of keeping it more manageable. Just wish I owned a qualifying '64 GTO!

The only viable reason to establish a "registry" of any kind is to identify a (small) group of like-minded individuals with similarly equipped vehicles. What is done with that information is nebulous and uncertain. My main point is that forming a registry to find out exactly how many of a specific car are still in existence is an exercise in futility. That goal will never be achieved. You'll never get all owners to respond. It will take years to get even a 2% response rate.

One way to make use of a large registry is in research. If the registry can be accessed to learn of differences and likenesses in a particular subgroup, that is a legitimate advantage for the owners and researchers. Getting a large group of respondents for such an endeavor is a very hard thing to achieve though. As has been mentioned, there is no harm in trying, as long as the volunteered information is safeguarded.

I see no point in contributing to a "Registry" as my 64 GTO "Mechanical" Tri-Power GTO was "tampered with" by the Zone Office before I ever received it.

I enjoy reading about the "Original" Tri-Power cars as well as 4 BBL cars in this forum but do not consider my car any "better" vs a 4 bbl car.

John V brings far more info to this subject vs bs-ing with someone about how their car is more correct vs my car.

Why Pontiac did different things at KC vs at Pontiac still amazes me
when today we try and make all of the cars/ trucks exactly the same manufacturing process.

Tom Vaught

ttttt

Don, I haven't forgotten about sending the info on my 64 to you. It's been a loooong week. Walt.

Registry is underway. I'm the data entry clerk for Don. So far, 3 cars have been logged. C'mon all you '64 fans, need to catch up to the '65 Registry!

John , did you guys gtet in touch with Bill Ryder? He as mentioned,has a really beautiful one. PM me, I have talked with Bil several times, a great guy, and I will give you his home phone #. I would wager he would be delighted. Larry B.

Car for sale in the Legend
 

There is a '64 convertible GTO with tripower & 4spd for sale in the April edition of the Legend. Owner is Cleve Thurber and can be contacted at clevethurber@gmail.com or (313) 886-2805.

Bill

I talked the the gentleman as it is a local call for me. He probably lives 3 miles away from me.

Here is how the car is built:

1964 Pontiac GTO Convertible, 4-speed, Tri-Power; Aquamarine, parchment interior, white top; power steering, power brakes, power windows, wood wheel, console w/vacuum gauge, Hurst wheels w/new Coker redline tires, splitters, padded dash, electric clock, vintage sun tach mounted on steering column, AM-FM stereo w/trunk-mounted 12-disc CD changer (have original radio); MSD ignition, new clutch/flywheel, new 3.56 rear axle, ceramic coated headers, Flowmaster exhaust system, engine meticulously rebuilt, balanced and blueprinted. Top-shelf restoration by R&A Engineering, Manchester, Michigan. PHS documented, Protect-O-Plate. All receipts.
$89,500

http://ra-restorations.com/

(Supposed to have done restorations for Bob "the Putz")


The car has obviously been tweaked to suit the owners taste.

"Vintage sun tach mounted on steering column, AM-FM stereo w/trunk-mounted 12-disc CD changer (have original radio); MSD ignition, new 3.56 rear axle, ceramic coated headers, Flowmaster exhaust system"

Lots of pictures in Hemmings. Car has been on the market for 8 months.
Owner says he will lose money at sale of $89k. Not a Pontiac guy as did not know if car was built in Pontiac, K.C., etc. He said that he would look at the protect-o-plate and read the build letter. He has PHS info but if it is for a Pontiac build and the car was k.C. then we know stuff is wrong.

He has owned the car for 3 years.

Tom Vaught

Thought I read recently that someone was going to provide the 64 GTO Registry Information to some GTO club in the near future. I would be very unhappy about that deal.

I was told that there would be some confidentiality if the info was provided to the Person in Charge of the Registry.

So what is the story here?

Tom Vaught

Tom, I'm not aware of that being the case.

My understanding is that when I forward the updated Registry by pdf to Don, he distributes by email only to the guys who have submitted their cars/info.

Hopefully Don will chime in.

Of course, as I write this, it occurs to me that anybody on the Registry could distribute the pdf to anyone. I've assumed that each Owner would keep the Registry confidential but maybe not so.

Do we have a problem?

I'll email Don.

No problem that I am ware of. Tom I sent you a PM and an e mail to all those that have participated so far . Don

Ha! You'll never catch the '65 registry....

;)

I replied to your PM, Don with my concerns based on a situation that happened to a friend of mine.

You would like to think that everyone in the Registry would honor the confidentiality of the Information. I have no issues with someone knowing that I have owned 64 GTOs built certain ways. I do have an problem with distribution of VIN numbers for very desirable vehicles where the info could easily make it out on to the internet or to people who know how to find information on the internet based on State Records, Tax Records, etc.

I can remember when we used to have to give our SS # every time we passed a check in college. It was used as your Student ID. Today we have learned that that was a very bad idea.

JMO

Tom Vaught

VIN numbers are no different.

i agree with your concerns tom.

how about john leaves off the vin #'s when he publishes the registry, as extra precaution? i don't think anyone has any legitimate reason to know this.... tim

Yep, I think that would be an excellent idea.

I provided the VIN to John V to help him "track" build info vs time dates. If that would not have been a valuable thing I would never have given out the VIN to anyone.

The PHS documents clearly show GTOs built with Tr-Powers from the factory.

Tom Vaught

I think what Tom V is referring to is an email from Tom Arendt that he was going to publish information about the registry in their widely read Cruising Tigers Club newsletter to spread the word about the registry, not publish the actual registry data. At least that was my take on it. Walt

The blurb in The Crusin' Tigers' monthly has only info on joining the 64 Registry, nothing else. Larry B.

Found One Today
 

It's not mine but I met the Husband and Wife which bought this 64 Tri-Power 4 spd. Conv. new in mid 1964. I have pics of the firewall data plate and LH door jam VIN tag. He has done some odd personal touches, but it's the real deal. It's up to you guys if you want to add it to your list? LMK, Chris.

Don,

I've mentioned this before but failed to follow up. Will begin to do so.

I started collecting info on all '64 GTOs back in '84. B'Cast copies, VINs, Trim Tag info, Warranty Tags, owner info, Window Sticker info, Manifest info, etc. The purpose was to decipher the Trim Tag codes (working w/Pete McCarthy).

Over the years, I've collected info on hundreds of '64 GTOs by surveying owners from Smoke Signals, the GTO Assoc., car shows, junk yards and even a car I'd see on the road. Back before computers & databases, I'd organize this info manually. At some point, I started logging the data into an Excel matrix.

I'll start putting together everything I have and send it to you.

As for disclosure of VINs, I guess I can understand some concerns regarding confidentiality. There are some out there who mis-use everything (shared a Build Sheet from an HO 68 GTO once to a local Detroit area friend.. car was parted out. He ended up doctoring what I gave him for his own 'clone' and didn't present the car at a show as a clone). Anyhow, I suppose it makes sense not to publically distribute VINs. However, one wonders then why VINs are not hidden on vehicles. They're right there on the dash for all to see (which is how I gathered many from car shows). Not saying it can't be done, but how is it that someone can take the VIN from another's car and use this to steal/clone or?? another car? It's your VIN; you have the title. Is it that easy to take ANY VIN and walk into a DMV/Sec.State and get a title for it?
Then what? Create new a new VIN tag (and Trim Tag), put it on your car and claim that your's is legit and the rightful owner of the real car/VIN is in possession of a fraud? Again, I'm sure anything is possible. Just saying; if it were that easy, Auto Mfg. wouldn't display the VIN.

Is there a law anywhere about publishing VIN numbers?

Not trying to stir up a debate; Just wondering why the secrecy?

Personally, I think that part of a Registry is to see the VIN and associated data to reveal some interesting results. Maybe help someone find a car they once owned. Track certain production variations. Determine which are still on the road or similarities. The VIN is the unique element of research. The Body Unit Number (I'm told) wasn't duplicated during production; That too would then be unique. In any Registry, you're going to have partial info. Sometimes, I obtained only the VIN; Sometimes only the Trim Tag info. The Dash VIN didn't appear until '68 so in order to get the VIN on a '64, you'd have to open the Door (wouldn't do that at a car show).

Anyhow, for what it's worth, I'll make copies of everything I have and put together a pkg. for you Don. Would be nice to finally see this info shared in a way that can benefit others (with or w/o VIN). It is interesting to see consecutive VINs come in from different parts of the country or, to find very early (like the 1st or last) VINs.

Thanks!
John
SR71@comcast.net

Sent you an e mail

registry
 

Well reading the post on this subject sounds like my car is a rare bird or should I say goat (:
i have a real documented 4 speed tri power convertible. this might explain why when I bought it I receive a phone call 6 months later that the person was sorry and wanted to buy it back. Sorry if you ever read this post but no way jose. I dont understand what people are afraid of by listing it in the registry are they afraid someone is going to clone it ?

It's a Federal requirement for the VIN to be prominently displayed on the vehicle (hence the move from the door pillar to the top of the instrument panel in the 70's).

In fact, we have to build in features so the VIN cannot be obscured, such as a bump to prevent slipping an index card between the VIN tag and the IP dash pad.

K

You Have to Love It
 

When I stopped in AZ the other night the assistant manager called me over and said Don you'll appreciate this. A friend of my mothers just had eye surgery and got her drivers license back so she could drive her GTO ,can you guess what it is ? a 1964 tri power convertible, she bought the car new and it has been garage kept and always serviced by the GM dealership.
I told him I have to talk to this lady.He's going to try and get contact information for me I'll keep you posted.

I love these types of stories. My mom had a Bridge partner, and they used to play every week or so. Her name was Margo, and in 71, bought a 70 GTO CVT. off the lot in La Grange, Illinois. Drove it to the card tournaments, games whenever the weather was good, even when it was iffy. She was 75 last time I worked a bit on her car!
Don, please post any info you obtain on this car! Larry B.

top boot snaps
 

I'm looking over the instructions that came with my convertible top boot and I'm unsure about the number of snaps that are used. I have 4 total= two on each side. Are more used? Are there snaps on the corners of the stainless trim? The instructions mention 5 more. How many are on yours?

There are 6 total two on each arm rest then two on the back of the rear seat on each end there is an elastic piece with a snap on the boot that attaches there. . Only 65s have the two snaps on the corners of the stainless boot well trim .

Top boot
 

I think this has been discussed before but let's start again. It looks to me like the clips that hold the top boot in place are going to scratch the hell out of the stainless trim. Is that the case? It's for that reason I haven't put the top boot on when the top is down. What do you guys do?

They do no matter how careful you are . I put the back in first then push down the front just don't let anyone help you . A couple times when we were out and it started to rain even a couple GTO guys just pulled up on the boot . and it scratched my trim. When you take it off lift the front edge then take it off the back . the problem is every where the clips touch it does wear on the front and rear edge. I've tried rubber dip ,taping the clip, taping the trim and so on eventually it scratches. I've re done mine a couple times. I'm to the point my car is what it is ,a driver I'll drive it until I can't drive any more.
I don't like to drive mine with out the boot but you have to live with the results but my top is down 99% of the time anyway even when it goes to a show. rag tops were made to have their tops down imo that's the only way they look good.

E Bay claiming to be an original Tri Power 4 speed

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...m=140680728068

http://smokymountaintraders.com/prog...9641355165_445

I called and did talk to at S M T . He said he had the PHS and the Tri Power option was checked. I asked if he would forward copies to me and told him about this post and our quest to find as many of these original cars as we could . I have not received any thing yet and probably won't but hoping we will . The car was built in Pontiac per the vin code.over all the car doesn't look to bad but close inspection of the motor compartment shows the wiring harnesses most likely will need to replaced. underneath they have some fancy brake line redesign and some dampening weights on the rear most likely because the drive shaft is reversed. there are some other things that will show up I'm sure but as I said the over all pictures look good . asking price 50 K

Could this be another one ?

http://www.cars-on-line.com/56247.html

1964 Pontiac GTO Convertible

Pontiac GTO Convertible. PHS documented original 1964 Pontiac GTO convertible with factory tri-power and 4-speed transmission. Finished in correct Grenadier red with correct black power convertible top. Original sheet metal is laser straight, no rust or patch panels. Correct black interior includes bucket seats and console with vacuum gauge. Equipped with power steering, power brakes, AM/FM radio and positraction. Owner history and restoration documentation along with certification documentation from the Pontiac Historical Society is available. Shown with the stock steering wheel (optional deluxe wood steering wheel available). Shown with Cragar mags however original spinner hubcaps are available.
PRICE REDUCED $ 55,900 offers considered

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haven't seen the registry in a bit. is there a latest update available? thks tim

Looks like this is just for convertibles. Let me know if I missed a similar registry for coupes.

I don't know of one .
Not many 64 convertibles so far that were born with factory Tri Powers and 4 speeds have show up.The PHS for the car has to show it came from the factory. There are a lot of up graded ones out there but not many factory ones .

top boot velcro
 

My top boot from Legendary has velcro on the front edge. I have the metal strip on the back seat but not the piece that fits in it to attach to the boot. Who sells this piece?

thanks

I have a friend who told me today that he took parts off of a 64 GTO Tri-Power 4-speed Convertible years ago but wrote down the Vin Number. If I get the Vin number, I will try to see if we can get a copy of the PHS now that the car is crushed and add the info to the Registry.

Tom Vaught

Yesterday I laid eyes on a 64 GTO Convert. 76X code 3x2's 4-speed with factory air.
A car collector has it. It was sitting in the corner, nose against the wall like it was a stepchild. It looks like it needs a total resto. The owner is in Arizona looking to buy more cars. I'm guessing this car could be bought?? But I haven't won the lottery yet.

Can you get any information on it ?