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68 Firebird Convertible 200-4R Install
I am going to install a 1987 Monte Carlo SS TH200-4R in my 68 Firebird 400 convertible and have been obtaining needed parts. I have the following:
- Transmission; - Lockup torque converter; - TH350 yoke; - Lockup converter kit; - TV cable; - Dip stick; - Carburetor TV cable bracket. The TH400 transmission mount works with the TH200-4R transmission. If you have installed a TH200-4R or TH700-R4 in your firebird, what else is needed. |
I have not installed one of these, but going through the process with a 4l60. A couple things you didn’t mention.
Carb TV cable correction linkage Shifter detent plate You may need a new driveshaft or shorten current shaft |
Installed one in a second gen bird. 200 and 350 are the same length so a complete drive shaft and yoke from a th350 would work. The oil pan is longer and the mount is farther back so I used a spare cross member, cut out the center, dropped it down with plates. Filled between the plates with 1x2" tube laid flat to give pan clearance, then welded a tab for the mount.
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If you need to change the speedometer gear to correct the speedometer, do that before you put it in. You need to drop the pan to change the gear and if using a th400 cross member, it blocks a few of the rear pan bolts.
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Thanks. I'm thinking of doing the same swap so I'm taking notes.
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How's the install going? Interested in any updates you might have, esp if you've installed it and driven the car. I installed one in my wife's 68 Firebird and didn't have a great experience with it so I'm curious how it worked out for you.
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Slow, but I'm old
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A number of different things:
- Shifts occurred way too early. Even under some throttle the trans wanted to shift into higher gears at low speeds. - No passing gear at all. I never could get the transmission to drop down a gear under load for a "passing gear". I had to manually downshift. - The lockup feature worked initially but later I could never tell when it was engaged or not. I had even installed a switch under the dash that should have allowed me to manually engage the lockup, when at speed on the highway. Usually you can hear the RPMs change a bit IIRC. All in all, given the amount of work I had to put into swapping in this trans and the expense (I bought a kit from a company specializing in these transmissions in Florida), the result was a very sluggish car that was not much fun to drive. I usually joke with my friends that my Tahoe was/is faster. To be fair, the Firebird (at the time) had the numbers matching 350 in it with a very mild cam and a 2bbl to 4bbl swap which I doubt was putting out a lot of big horsepower (no dig on the other 350 owners here - it was just a very mildly setup 350), but regardless it was less responsive than when it had the 3-speed in it. Club members here in the area think the Torque Converter might have been much too high. The company in question stated on the order form that I selected the converter but I did not. I relied on them, as the experts in these trans to recommend one (mistake, I know). I also felt I could never get the TV Cable set correctly, lots of ppl will say its easy. That's a whole other discussion. I used a custom adapter for the carb linkage from another company that should have set the cable geometry perfectly. I saw your list in the OP. Thought I would post here what I did in the event it helps you or someone else prep. 1 - Cut the factory driveshaft to match 2 - Bought a custom trans cross-member that loops around the back of the pan so you can remove the pan any time 3 - Modified the pan to add a drain bolt 4 - Installed a trans cooler and built custom lines to run from Trans -> Radiator -> Cooler -> back to Trans (I believe) 5 - Swapped in the correct shifter adapter plate to change from 3-speed shift to 4-speed shift 6 - Changed the carburetor linkage on the Quadrajeft from Pontiac to Chebby and installed the Custom Adapter I mentioned above 7 - Modified the stock linkage adapter on the intake and installed a customer adapter to work with it to allow the stock linkage to manage the throttle cable and the TV cable. 8 - Installed an adapter on the trans to allow me to hookup a pressure gauge inside the car (to use to monitor pressure at various shift points - directions in the kit specified at what pressure shifts should occur) 9 - Installed the required "wiring harness" to run the manual lockup switch inside the car That's all I can remember. I'm about to install the 2nd 200R4 in the same car so if I remember anything else, I'll post it here. If I beat you to punch, I'll try and post more about the experience this go around. I am running a different torque converter this time and an engine swap occurred as part of the project which was one part front clip restoration and two parts trans swap. The 350 came out and got baggied and crated away since its the numbers engine. I am installing a '68 400 with a moderately hotter than stock build that should make a lot more power. |
Sounds like a bad experience. I certainly hope your luck, and mine, is better this time! Lots of good info. Thank you
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When I first installed mine it was almost perfect, like the factory set it up. Then I modified everything. The only thing I don’t like now is that it goes into I’d to early and doesn’t come out out od early enough
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I have a 200-4R kit on order right now with Art Carr at California Performance Transmission for my '69 GTO.
When I called for info, he very strongly advised not going with a lockup converter. however, he said if I insisted he would sell me a lockup converter and controller. Since he advised not going that route, I decided to take that advice and go with a non-lockup. He said "good decision". |
What is Art Carr's reasoning for not going with a lockup convertor?
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Basically the benefit for the cost and trouble of it makes it not worth it for a car that is for hobby and not a daily commuter.
The only controller he recommends is the Compushift Mini at $369. The lock-up converter is more money too and I think the valve body is as well. He acknowledges you will get a bit better highway mileage going with a lock up but how long does it take to make up the ~$500 difference in gasoline cost on a car that is driven for only for pleasure? And that's only going to be miles driven on the highway. No difference with in-town driving. |
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I ordered the Art Carr package for my 68 FB. Runs great on the street and does 12.60s at the track. He also did not recommend lockup. My stall isnt so high and I dont think slip on the street is an issue. Going on 8 years now with it.
paste below of the order. not formatted right but you can see everything. 02/22/2013 Sales Order# 012606 Lemieux Steve Lemieux Steve Description Bill To: Ship To: Special Order Drop Ship Art California Performance Transmission Price Total Carr 5502 Engineer Dr. Huntington Beach, CA 92649 Phone: (714) 901-3777 Fax: (714) 901-3784 02/22/2013 Facsimilie Ordered Shipped Open Date UOM Required ATTENTION! - This is an Order Confirmation. Please Check the Line Items for Accuracy 0 Detail Information Vehicle: 1968 Firebird Weight: Trans:2004R Engine: 455 450HP Cam: Gear Ratio: 3:55 Tire:26" Carb: Holly Motor Plate: License #: Mileage: 1 1 INFO EACH 02/22/2013 $0.000 $0.00 0 TH-2004R TRANS CHEV-BOP TH-2004R TRANS BUICK/CHEV/OLDS/PONT V-8/400+ HP EXTREME DUTY 1 1 12021 EACH 02/22/2013 $1,899.990 $1,899.99 0 200 4R CONVERTER 12"2000- 2200 STALL TH-200 4R CONVERTER 12" NON LOCK-UP/ 27 SPLINE 82-89 2000- 2200 Stall 1 1 88230 EACH 02/22/2013 $275.000 $275.00 0 NPN Discount 1 1 NPN EACH 02/22/2013 -$217.000 -$217.00 0 TH-200 4R T.V. CABLE TH-2004R UNIVERSAL T.V. CABLE 1 1 12280 EACH 02/22/2013 $59.990 $59.99 0 T.V. CABLE MOUNTING BRACKET/GM-HOLLY 2004R/700R4 T.V. CABLE MOUNTING BRACKET/GM-HOLLY 1 1 12281 EACH 02/22/2013 $29.990 $29.99 0 TV BRACKET 700-R4 200-4R- HOLLY TH-700R4/TH-2004R UNIVERSAL CARB. TV CABLE BRACKETHOLLY 1 1 15599 EACH 02/22/2013 $39.990 $39.99 0 TH- 200 4R BOP- DIP STICK TH -200 4R BOP- DIP STICK and TUBE 1 1 77799 EACH 02/22/2013 $49.990 $49.99 CROSSMSMBER 67-69 FIREBIRD CROSSMSMBER 67-67 FIREBIRD TH-400-TH200 4R 1 1 91016 EACH 02/22/2013 $159.990 $159.99 0 OIL COOLER OIL COOLER TRANS SAVER 5 1/2 HIGH X 11 WIDE 1 1 51022 EACH 02/22/2013 $109.990 $109.99 0 REAR TRANSMISSION MOUNT REAR TRANSMISSION MOUNT-STOCK 1 1 13281 REAR MOUNT EACH 02/22/2013 $19.950 $19.95 0 GM CONVERTER DUST COVER GM CONVERTER DUST COVER UNIVERSAL 1 1 17780 EACH 02/22/2013 $25.990 $25.99 $2,738.87 $0.00 $285.00 Sub Total $2,453.87 Freight Grand Total Balance Deposit $0.00 $2,738.87 EXMT 0% Tax Date |
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Looks like they've gone up which would be expected. With prices rising the way they are, I wouldn't be surprised if there's been an increase since I bought mine.
I ordered mine on 3/9/21 and should be receiving it in the next couple of weeks. Total was $3643.97 |
Appreciate you both posting those. I think I paid ~$2100 for the kit I bought from the company out in Florida (circa 2013). I haven't named them since they are not a sponsor here and not sure its ok to do so. I've heard both good and bad feedback about them. Of course that did not include some of the other extras I bought like the custom cross-member and the carburetor linkage etc.. Total bill was likely closer to $2600.
The stall converter was of particular interest to me @XLR8Steve as I had mentioned some of the POCI members here in SATX felt it was not a good match for the engine application at the time. They sent me a converter with a 2300-2600 stall which is more stall than was included on your order for a MUCH hotter engine than the 350 we were running. The stall converter I just purchased from Summit is 1600-2200 stall. |
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