Help Mike Get His Car Running
 

If anyone's up for a challenge and has a lot of patience, I want your help getting my stalled project running and driving before I give up.

The car hasn't been driven in about 15 years and has been sitting the last 3 since I moved it.

It had these known issues when I parked it about 3 yrs ago:

- Rust and debris in fuel system
- Would not idle (flooding, may or may not be related to rust)



Here's a link to my last unsuccessful attempt. Thanks for the good help from many of you:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...errerid=160974

One big decision:

- Replace the gas tank or not?

How would I inspect and determine condition of the tank and lines?



After that, where to start?

Assuming the car is a complete unknown, what would you do first?



Things I had planned and will continue as I dive back in:

- Replace radiator
- Replace damper
- Revisit distributor
- Revisit fuel pump
- Deal with transmission fluid leak
- All the things I should have done, did wrong, or don't know about yet


Mike

Model of Pontiac?

Quickly skimmed through your 2018 thread.

Replace the fuel tank.

Not exactly sure what car you have but I’d buy a new one first thing if available.

Before you buy the new gas tank or fuel pump .... buy one of those outboard motor fuel tanks, put it under the fuel pump and plumb it directly in. If it runs nice that way ... well you know you have a fuel tank/line/rust problem. Get the smallest one you can ... about 3 gallons I think ... around $50. Will always come in hand in the future for similar adventures with fuel systems, or engines on stands. Will also allow you to put off the expense and time to install a new tank if you want to diagnose other things first.

Not sure what your long-term goals are but assume you just want to get the car into drivable condition at this moment in time. It's all about restoring the systems that have aged beyond reliable use.

Re-place the fuel tank. It's not even worth the bother of inspecting and cleaning and the replacement tanks (assuming it's an A body) are cheap. Install a new pickup and sending unit. Think ahead if you plan to install FI later. Then you will want a FI-ready tank even if you don't need it now. It's more expensive than a standard tank but cheaper than buying 2 tanks in the long run. Check your fuel lines for signs of rust. If you can easily pinch a rusty fuel line with a pair of channel locks and a light grip, install new 3/8 fuel lines and a new fuel pump also. New or used make sure to flush your fuel lines with brake cleaner and compressed air. These things are all pretty inexpensive.

You can rebuild your own carburetor (if you are capable) or get your carburetor rebuilt while you work on the car. Honestly, forget about all the high dollar performance builders for this, you're not at that point yet and will just waste money. National Carburetor Rebuilders can rebuild your Qjet for $239 plus return shipping or sell you a rebuilt and recolored replacement for $329 plus your core (non-numbers match if that's a concern). The carb rebuilders here are going to give you a million reasons why you shouldn't do this but my personal experience with 3 of these National Rebuilds has been bolt it on, fire up and drive away, They all were just fine without touching a thing. I twisted the mixture screws on the first one for highest vaccuum and it was in the in the ballpark, the others, I didn't even bother based on how well they ran. The choke preset and function was just fine right out of the box and the carburetors looked brand new.

Flush and fill the radiator and check for leaks and good circulation. Replace the belts and hoses including all radiator, heater and vacuum hoses. Replace the radiator and water pump if they are bad. Of course you will need a new battery and a voltmeter to check alternator output.

Get good tuneup parts including points, rotor, cap and wires and install. NAPA is your best source for reliable parts. Then do a brake inspect and at a minimum replace the brake hoses and replace any leaking wheel cylinders if needed. Once running and stopping reliably, you move to the finessing of what will be a finished car (if there is such a thing)

I would first open up the carb and look for crap in the fuel bowl.
If you find some then it’s time to take it fully apart, blow it out with very high pressure air re-assemble it with at least new gaskets.

Once all back together flip it upside down and with your mouth blow into the fuel in let.
You should hear no air getting into the fuel bowl.
If you do then something is holding the needle and seat apart and it will flood out on you if you where to get the motor to run.

If no air is heard then you should be set to bolt it on.

At this point just deal with the motor as if it was on a breakin/ engine stand.
If you have spark then you do not even need fuel just to hear if kick if you use some starting ether.
If it kicks then dribble about a Thimble full of gas down each open primary bbl.
Then motor should be able to run on that for 3 to 4 seconds.
You do not even need a working charging system if the battery has a full charge and you don’t even need the cooling system hooked up, nor even any coolant in the motor to run it for 15 seconds at a clip.

Thanks for the quick replies.

Car is a 70 LeMans

I will replace the tank and hope the lines aren't too bad. While I'm waiting, I can start replacing the radiator and damper.

dataway - I like your suggestion but given the rust and rubber particles I found in the carb (look at prior thread I linked below) and the 9 yrs the car spent in Seattle humidity, I think I'm better off getting a new tank.

I'll start shopping. Seems others have used Tanks Inc and Spectra with mixed results AFA fit. I also see Dorman brand available.

NeighborsComplaint - yes, you outlined the scenario well, thanks

25stevem - yup, take a look at prior thread

Dropped gas tank today and it looked pretty clean but a new tank is going in.

No pad underneath the tank so it has been out before. Not sure this is the original or not, but it's going to the scrapyard.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1665802018

Inside, rust is not obvious:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1665802038

I guess I'll pull a patch through the fuel line with a wire and see if it's the source of the rust.

The sender has a little rust and I'll replace it. Again, not sure this is the original or not but are there any good quality repros?

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1665802439

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1665802460

I would check that sender with an Ohm meter. If it works, I would run it. You can carefully clean the outside with a schotchbrite pad. Not sure what the specs. are for that year unit, but many were 0-90 ohms. Slowly lift the float and look for a smooth change in resistance with no open circuit.

that tank looks to be in great shape

Thanks Mike

Yes, it's marked 90 ohms, I've got an ohmeter, and I know how to use it! It was working when I parked the car a few yrs ago.

If it's an original sender, I don't trust the 50 yr-old mechanical feed-through connection after reading some other threads but I can deal with that...

If I decide to replace it, Tanks Inc. sells a sending unit they describe as "stainless steel construction". This sounds appealing. Anyone have any issues with this brand?

Mike

That original tank is still worth the better part of a C note.

Yes, I agree. I was expecting rust but didn't find it.

I already bought a new Spectra tank so I may be tossing a good one but the new one will be shinier ;) and a known-clean starting point.

Hopefully the lines will be clean enough because I don't think I could replace them...

Mike

So it looks original? Car is far from a gem and tank bottom is painted black so a lot of trouble to restore. If anyone wants it bad enough to come get it, they can have it.

Mike

I’d agree w this but you can also just disconnect the fuel line at the carb, crank it over and pump fuel out into a can. See what it looks like if it has debris or is dark colored. Empty the tank and add some new fuel w sea foam or something and see if that cleans it up. I’ve had a few really old tanks and pulled them looked inside and they were very clean no rust . So id check that first it’s easy and free .

I’d also put a good inline fuel filter before the carb, even if I used rubber lines to run it that way for a while until I was sure it was nice and clean fuel.

Thanks. I decided to replace the tank. May have been unnecessary but that's the path I took. The gas I siphoned out was definitely stale - dark and stinky.

I was working on an old Corvette and the original tank looked like yours. Clean. But I kept getting rust in the fuel system and having the car die out, gunk up the carbs, etc. When I pulled the tank to replace it with a new one, the original tank had rust on the TOP of it, falling into the fuel. From condensation. Unable to see it looking in without a borescope. The new Rock Auto tank fixed the problem 100%.

Good input! I do have a cheapo borescope, will go check it out.

But I now have one smoking gun. I was going to clean the sending unit and the sock fell apart in my hand. This is what I found inside the sock:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1665864489

So the sending unit is going to be replaced... I will go with Tanks Inc., hoping the claimed "stainless construction" is true.


I tied a pipe cleaner to a wire and shoved it as far as I could into the steel fuel line from both ends. It came out rust-free so that's really good news for me.

Excellent. You likely will not have line issues. Your issue is that unit. You can flush the fuel lines out with brake cleaner or rubbing alcohol, and blow air through them. I am running original fuel lines on my '61, '65, and '67 with no issues. But I am in CA and there is no outside rust on anything.

You predicted well, thanks.

I pumped a pint of alcohol through the line and captured it. I was happy to see stale gas but no massive rust mess. Mine is also a dry-climate Colorado car so the lines look mostly rust-free on the outside.

Onward

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1666403774