I am looking at a four speed 455 GTO being sold as a numbers matching car. The guy sent me pictures of the "WA" code, block casting number 9799140, and VIN stamp that look right.

My only concern is that the block date is too close to the car date. Could the dates be so close because the car was built at the Pontiac plant?

Block is J249 10/24/69
Heads J099 10/09/69
Car 10D Fourth week of Oct

Block unit 6214454
Block VIN 20P154553

Thanks for your input.

That's a mighty tight time from block cast to build date, though possible, at least in theory.

oPh and Mike Ransom need to chime in on this one. Mike has a '70 455 GTO so he should be able to provide some additional insight.

Here's a post from last week on this same topic:

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...1/m/5711007031

As Lloyd said, it is possible but maybe others will chime in with their build dates/motor numbers to compare from the same plant. Still no way to be certain on a '70 without finding the build sheet as the PHS for '70's does not give the motor unit number as the '68 and earlier PHS would. OPH can probably look at a motor unit number and the build date of the car and tell if it's in the ballpark for that time of the year so hopefully he'll chime in. Rick

Here is the block number. The third digit looks a little screwy.

Here is the WA stamp and unit number.

I have done some searches in the Forums and OPH and Ransom do seem to be the guys that have collected good data, so hopefully they will chime in tonight. Thanks Loyd and Rick.

That block number is a casting part number- there is nothing whatsoever "screwy" about it. It can't be faked, since it's cast into the block. This is how they all look.
The code and motor unit number stampings appear normal also. As for the date- I don't own a Pontiac-built 455 GTO, but my Fremont, CA and Baltimore, MD built 455 cars both have late October cast dates (J309 and J249), and the cars were both invoiced at the end of November. So, that's about a 4-week time lag from casting to final VEHICLE assembly, including engine assembly transport of between 700 and 2000-plus miles.

My 455 car, Fremont built 10D (build sheet states 10-28), has a J129 cast engine date and a MUN 3000 less than the one stated. Tight timeline for mine, but that one is very tight. Still, it could be legit. Is this the red/red car? The car that Lloyd owned for a short time had a MUN about 200 units above this one (it was built 11B in Fremont), but it's cast date was I309.
I don't think one can compare anything as far as plant built/motor date cast/car assembly date, but one can guess.
And I haven't seen a '70 build sheet yet with the MUN printed on it (most people will keep these sheets a guarded secret, for some reason). Doesn't mean someone doesn't have one, but it was probably written on. I wish they put them on the Protect-O-Plate.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...Could the dates be so close because the car was built at the Pontiac plant?... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

YES, the foundry & engine assembly plant was @ Pontiac, MI, & it makes sense that tighter dated engines would show up in Pontiac plant built cars. In looking at a calendar of 1969
http://www.flicklives.com/Timeline/1969_cal.html
Oct 24th was on a Friday the 4th week of Oct, for a J249 block to end up in a 10D Pontiac body, the body would have to set in the body bank up until mid to late 10E... definitely possible.

Thanks for the responses guys. It sounds like it is possible to have a block casting date within the same week as the car's build date at the Pontiac Plant.

HFR, I'm surprised your block dates are so tight with the build date at Fremont. I know you said we can't compare plants, but that gives me a comfort level with the possiblity of even tighter dates at the Pontiac Plant. Yes it's red on red.

Good job Slow!

Personally I think you made the best GTO purchase I've seen on Ebay in a long long time. I hope the car is all you are expecting ... and more!

Good luck with it.

Thanks 70ramir4,

The last bidder hit the button with 15 seconds left in the auction and kicked the price up $2K, but I was still the winner and I'm happy with the price.

I did all my homework on it and the seller seems like an honest guy. He really went out of his way to send me every body, code, and casting date picture I asked for.

I am in PA and the GTO is in Indiana, so I have not seen it yet.

Got the 455 4-spd, great option list, and desirable red on red color combo.

Most people are are into ram air Judges now, but I would think the 455 cars will be more desirable down the road.

I'm excited to get it and go driving!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte...TRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

While we're on the date code topic, I have a 70 trans am that was built in the Van Nyes plant. The cowl tag reads O4B, and if the new Firebird resto book can be believed, the car was built April 13, 1970. The block is dated January 20, 1970 (A200) and I know it's original because it has the correct VIN. One head is dated January 28th (A280) and the other is March 3th (C030). The intake is dated March 10th (C100). The guy I got the car from had it since 1973 and said the engine was all original. Any thoughts on the length of time between date codes, is this normal? FYI, the original carb is gone but the distributer is correcct and dated January 12th (0A12)

Very possible

Hi Slow:

Good luck with it. I'm not sure the 455's will be more valuable but you will not loose with that car. Truth be told - I forgot about the auction otherwise I may have bid! My convertible is in the paint shop as we speak.

I'm not sure you remember me but we've spoke over the phone a few times (I'm in Jersey.)

You can leave your phone at my email ([email protected]) and I'll check you out (and that nice car) when I get back in two weeks from abroad.

Thanks

Phil