Need tri power install info. details
 

will soon be installing a 66' restored tri power on this 65' gp 389, I've never messed with tri power but have the desire to learn, please give details on exactly what i need to swap this out and make it run properly, did a forum search and didn't come up with many specifics.
A step by step instruction would be perfect but i'll take what i can get, here's what i know so far, the motor has a big hei that won't fit and i need a shop manual, but which one? Who makes the best gaskets for this swap? Are there any changes that need to be made to the fuel system? What about timing specs and vacuum advance and that sort of thing? Thanks Jim

first of all who did the carbs?If someone that does them for a living did them you are WAY ahead of the game.If this is the case,get reg carb gaskets for them,hope you have the correct fuel lines and linkage and it should be just a bolt on after you get a small cap dist unit in the engine.A little tip,if you have a elect fuel pump,put the complete assm unit on a bench and pump fuel to it to find out where your fuel lines leak BEFORE you put it on the car.This can save hours on the install.Good luck.Tom

I went through some of the trouble to clean up / restore and install a '65 tripower over a year ago. I wish I had written all the stuff I did down but even if I had, I never finished so it woudln't have been a tested writeup.

Like Tom said above me, if someone who is experienced redid them for you then you are way ahead of the game.

As for a few tips I can think of that might be hard to track down later - I will say that the Carbking here on the forums is an awesome AWESOME resource for knowledge and parts. He sells a great rebuild kit and is usually more than willing to help you with questions over the phone if you buy his overall rebuild kit (this is not a shameful plug here, it's shameless and for a reason - he's a genuine sage and great guy to deal with).

I remember that carbs off of a 421 engine will have different sized venturi cluster end ports than do carbs off of a 389. (This is for '65, and is for center carb. Not sure about other years or end carbs.)

Also a good tip - It's my understanding that the biggest issue with putting on a tripower setup is a vacuum leak at either or both of the end carbs. These guys don't have an idle circuit so any improper closing / fit of their throttle blades lead to a vacuum leak since no fuel is delivered. What I've heard some people do during initial tripower installs is to use blocking plates in place of end carbs to eliminate that variable at first and to make sure the center carb is working ok (basically making your tripower into the baseline 2bbl intake setup). And once that's all worked out to go ahead and make the end carbs functional and troubleshoot them from there.


Yes with any luck you'll have a well restored setup with no problems but be prepared to work with a few of the nuances in order to reach the goal of what I think is one of the coolest options ever outfitted on these cars :-)

as for my setup... i'm about $300-400 away from the rest of parts I need (sounds like a lot but it's just a few small things here and there that add up)... More importantly I have a 65 setup and a 64 engine so I my manifold won't work with it.. This really slowed down my install :-)

That's a good idea about the blocking plates and i remember reading about that awhile back, the tri power was bought from a local bonneville/2+2 collector as a completely restored unit, i need to get ahold of him though to find out what jet size the carbs have in case they're not optimum, the unit has ames linkage, fuel lines, air cleaners and choke garage as far as repro items.
Does a tri power shop manual supplement exist? Does anyone know of any real good reference material so i can install this and diagnose all troubles? The engine runs good with the holley 4v and i will just be pulling it out and sealing up/detail job before putting in my convert. so.. i want to change as little as possible on this engine to keep it running sweet.
I've never been a test and tune person, i've messed with carbs on a few of my oldies but if i had a problem i would usually find the local repair guru to fix it, but this i must do for myself and i know i can pull it off with the right resources and your help.

before you put the end carbs on check that they have the black sealer around the edge of the throttle blades its called dag-213

I installed a tri-power setup on my '65 2+2 about 3 weeks ago, so far not fun. I've had problems with the idle and with stumbling off the idle. Finally got it to idle but had to back the idle screws nearly all the way out but the idle was perfect but the stumbling problem persisted, still does. My carbs came from a 389 with .072 jets, I was told that my 421 will never run on that so I changed to .062 jets, still stumbles but I'm not finished with the fine tunning. My main problem is that I don't know what I'm doing and I'm not sure that anyone in this area does either, I've had two people work on so far with mixed results, still not good. I've been told that a vacuum leak can really cause problems, any vacuum leak and that can occure if the end carb throttlebodies don't close completely, I'm about to duck tape mine up to make sure that can't be it. Still working, not giving up! Good luck with yours, let me know if I can help.

Just to expand on my earlier comment on different sized orifices on the venturi cluster-

Yes, there are different size jets on 421 vs 389 intended center carbs, but the cluster itself also has different orifice outputs.

I am not sure if there is a tripower sorta of addendum to the standard chassis shop manual, I doubt it. My '65 Chassis manual has all the information right in its carburetor section. HOWEVER- I did get a Rochester 2bbl rebuild guide booklet off of ebay. People sell reprints of these all over ebay for pretty cheap and it might be worth your while as it expands a little more on the ins and outs of the the 2 barrel carbs. I do believe it has info on end carbs as well as center carbs. It's a grey-covered manual.. i did a search for something like it on ebay but didn't have any luck. Here's one for sale elsewhere:
http://carburetor-manual.com/rochest...968-p-150.html


These are all helpful but none have had ALL the information that I've obtained from other real-deal guys who have worked with these things extensive.

A decent thread to browse at is my extensive thread on my rebuild:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...light=tripower

Sadly, it's mostly on the restoration of the one I used, and I said, never got to the install / tune of it.. but im sure there are useful tidbits in there.

Do a search on here for like "tripower install problems" or something like that and see how other people diagnosed + fixed their problems. I've done such a search before and I know there were some good posts.

keep us posted!

Not a manual, but possibly useful:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Tripowertuning.htm

Jon.

my tri power worked perfectly only problem i had was the center carb float had cracked where the tab that hangs it opposite of the needle had cracked and filled up with gas and gave me a flooding problem. but once fixed worked perfect. i had a nice set of uncracked airhorn 66 carbs that needed rebuilt, throttle shafts and bushings and redyed that i sold for enough without touching to buy the repro carbs the parts place sells and other than the numbers on the castings being non existent you cant tell them from originals. so anybody thinking about doing a tripower that might be the way to go. they came with dag 213 like i mentioned earlier on the end carbs throttle blades even though they really didnt need it

Here is the tripower rebuild from HPP, part III is the center carb rebuild.
. http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...les/page8.html

Dont forget that little ball stud on your AFB. You should be able to unbolt it and bolt it to the center carb to hook your throttle bar to. Most Tri powers came from A-Bodies and had a little nub to hook the accelerator cable to. It will not work on the big cars. The ball stud is a must. You will LOVE the tripower on your big car ( not the mileage however). Jeff

What is this dag 213 stuff? Mine don't have it, do i really need that and if so where do you get it and how do you apply it?
I need close up photos of stock 66' tri power setups as installed, need both sides but especially need to see the linkage area from the firewall to the carbs, all i have now is the carb to carb sliding linkage, no manifold brackets, throttle rod or anything from the carbs to the firewall, i have no idea what is supposed to be there and how it all hooks together.
I'll post progress pics soon, thanks. Also, what is the diff. btwn gto and big car tri power setups if any?

"What is this dag 213 stuff?"

...I don't know either, but have you tried a Google search?

Y'all got me wondering about this DAG goo too, so I looked it up. We all know now! :P

"Dag 213 is designed to provide controlled electrical resistance properties. Dag 213 is a dispersion of finely divided graphite pigment in an epoxy resin solution. When properly cured, it has excellent adhesion to epoxy circuit boards, bushings, plastics and ceramics. Dag 213 also has excellent wearing properties. It provides chemical resistance to oils and many solvents, but not to enamel strippers.

Dag 213 as a lubricant coating provides clean, dry, long-wearing, and superior maintenance-free lubrication for a wide range of light to medium load applications. A thin film of Dag 213 keeps wear uniform and reduces friction on mating metal parts without requiring increased manufacturing tolerances. Components are protected from metal-to-metal contact even in applications approaching boundary lubrication, reducing the risk of damage due to partial or complete seizure. Formulated from processed micro-graphite and epoxy resin, Dag 213 forms tightly adherent coatings on many types of substrates. In addition to high lubricity, Dag 213 coatings exhibit extremely good wear resistance to oils and solvents (except enamel strippers)"

The rest is here:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

From what people have been suggesting for its application, it looks like it's supposed to act as an extra insurance for a tight (vacuum-free) seal between the throttle blades and their bores.

When I was reading into the vacuum leak problems while rebuilding my tripower I heard of a different chemical product for that same purpose. The stuff I had heard about also had a thre-letter type name with some numbers attached. But the stuff I had heard about was supposed to be very hazardous and not recommended. I'd like to glance at the MSDS for the DAG stuff to see what sorts of things the manufacturer cautions against for it.

Has anyone here actually done their tripower and used DAG?

Ah, found the MSDS on it here:
http://www.laddresearch.com/wsmsds/DAG213.pdf

Seems to have typical (but still worrisome) health hazards -
irreversible damage to eyes possible if contact is made
several known carcinogens in it (and I'm not just talking about the ones beknownst only to the state of California!)
Kidney damage if you inhale enough of it, poor memory. Some of these may be common in many chemicals but if anyone does use it, please be cautious and wear adequate protection. Also, it mentions dangers of inhaling dust created by sanding/etc surfaces that have been treated with it. In case anyone does future tri power projects and lightly sands / emerys the bores - careful in case they have been treated with such stuff in the past.

Alright I think that's a solid enough warning for all.

Well not sure if i'll be using dag 213 but i did talk to dave at daves small body hei about a distributor, sounds like he'll be able to fix me up. Waiting on parts from Py and ames to get things rolling, still need a few pieces to finish the linkage.
Still looking for close up pics of an automatic big car tri power with direct linkage, anyone?? also need a source for the double belt pulley that mounts to the water pump. More updates and photos to come, thanks to everyone for the help thus far. Jim

PM sent

seem to recall factory 65-66 factory service manual had details on tri-power and MPC had illustration and parts shown. Dougs carb book or others have info on 2gc carbs. you could contact the local GTO club in Houston. www.gulfcoastgtos.com Some of their people have tripower on both full size and GTOs.

You will also need one that has at least a 3/16" + shoulder on it. Hard to find, but you can make one. IME without this, the rod is not at the correct angle to the carb., & it causes Probs.

My end carbs leak occasionally, but no other issues on mine. I rebuilt the whole mess myself with no issues. Had to take it all off a 2nd time to go through it all again to get it exactly right. It is cool, but I think the right 4bbl romps better. Not the same eye candy or war wooping when you open it up though.