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301 swap to 400 couple questions
sorry in advance for being long but hopefully i can get these questions answered and not have to search the forums for days on end to figure them all out.
i haven't bought a 400 yet but after talking to a lot of people and searching it looks like i'm going to get one. I'll try and find one locally that can be rebuilt or get one from a builder. i'm looking for 300-375hp range depending on price. i have a 79 formula with a/c and a 301 with a th350 and 2.41 rear. i want to keep the th350 and install a stage 2 shift kit and bump up the rear to 3.08s. would that be ideal for that hp range ? right now i'm wrapping up all my body work, the car is stripped and panels removed and its basically ready to be put back together and get a coat of epoxy. was going to keep the 301 at first and modify but found out its not worth it and and my moneys gone to everything else so an immediate swap isn't likely. so i wanted some opinions of what route to take....should i finish the body work get the car in epoxy sealer and have the jambs and trunk area and what not painted in case of scratching or anything. or should i just paint the whole car right away? i have an engine hoist but not a cherry picker. how difficult is it to remove and install the motor or motor & tranny without ruining the paint ? is it easier to remove/install both at once or just the motor ? also when it comes to installation does anything have to be moved ? motor mounts ? will a set of headers fit fine ? should the hood be removed, or is there enough clearance ? can the a/c components be re-used ? can the radiator be re-used or will i face over-heating problems ? / buy a new 4-core ? if a 4 core is bought do i need a new fan shroud ? is the stock fan enough to cool the motor or are electric fans necessary ? and when i comes to vacuum advance will it only be necessary to have vacuum for heat and a/c ? or does anything else run off of it ? lastly should i just paint the car and then have a shop install the motor ? and please chime in any other info you feel helpful. thanks a lot for sticking in there and i'm looking forward to your replies. |
your doing a very similar setup to me i think....ive got a 1981 301 (ecu equipped) TA th350 3.08 gears and am putting a 1970 400 in.
with decent heads with 9 or over cr and good engine and a decent cam will c u into the 300+ 3.08 gears would be good...at least they are for me...i have no intention of changing mine anyway its easy to get the motor out without any damage and i found it a reall easy job...took 4-5 hours to get radiator away and bits and get the motor and leave the tranny there....400 depending on year shoud have same mounts (post 1970 i think anyway) so should bolt right back in place of the 301. intake will sit higher because 400 has higher block hight so sum adjustmant may be neccasary but not a big problem standard and after market headers should fit fine think a 4 core is a good inversment. dont cut corners on basics like that and stock fan should be fine for that hp range and i dont think you need a new fan shroud no.(check that thou) now im no expert...all of this is down to personl experiance so i would double check in case sum of the experts here know differant :) |
The way I did mine is I cleaned every thing up fand made the repairs to the firewall then painted it then installed the engine. I have never done this swap but I did do a 350 to a 455 in a 69 Bird and it was very streight forward. IMHO get a 455 if you can find one more bang for the buck.....
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The AC equipment will mount fine since in mounts to the head only.
The 301 alternator bracket will not work on a 400 without modification. This is due to the different deck height and the fact that the bracket goes between the block (water pump bolt) and the head. The power steering pump will mount with the same bracket. A note, the earlier heads (maybe pre-74, but I don't really know the year) don't have the the hole that is in all latter pontiac heads that the alternator pivots on. When I did my swap ('78 301 to '69 400) I modified my alternator bracket and made an adapter plate to "added" the hole to the head. |
go for it
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sorry i included my opinions in the quote....how do you do it and have the quote broken up ? i hope that helps...
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yea i work overnight so when i wake up i just jump into working on the car everyone else has daytime jobs in the house so i don't have to worry about noise or anything. its great.
about the radiators i don't understand why when i see ones on ebay like this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALL-A...spagenameZWDVW why can this be used on both auto or manual ? but when i go to becool's website they show different radiators for manual or auto. anyhow could i buy a cheaper one off ebay ? what makes a becool cost 600 over this $200 one ? or theres this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/70-81...spagenameZWDVW i'll look in the the forums but has anyone had exp. with Universal Parts All Pro ? or this particular one ? |
about the radiators i don't understand why when i see ones on ebay like this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALL-A...spagenameZWDVW
since this ad states good for auto or manual, you can use it. maybe other manufacturers do not include the trans oil cooler on every radiator, so that is why there is a manual or auto option. |
cant you do an alternate trans cooler if you want. one not tied to the rad ? now that i think of it wouldnt that help engine cooling by not loading the rad with trans heat ? any new 4 row rad would be better than a 20-30 year old oem unit anyway, no matter what the price. whay hook your new motor to old stuff.....by the way, i would go thru that gas tank and fuel line too..........
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speaking of fuel lines are the stock lines that are on the car now large enough in diameter ? i intended on replacing them anyway, but wasn't sure if i should increase the diameter size, or the fuel pump strong enough ?
i haven't decided what carb to put on when i do the swap but def. a 4bbl...i'm not to knowledgeable on them. and because its not a shaker hood and only have so much clearance...what intake is ideal i assume it should be a lower profile one ? ? ? |
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IMO if your gonna replace it, no matter what it is, get bigger and better. but i feel that way because i have been bit by the power bug. some will say enough is enough, but i say "buy with room to grow". search your soul for your needs......many say the stock 4bbl intakes are as good as aftermarket stuff for many mild combos and they sit real low. i dont know about 3rd gen hoods ect, someone else will have to clarify that. |
Your rad will be fine.I have a 455 in a 1980 trans am that used to have a 301.The a/c cars have what my rad guy calls a maxi 3 core rad.For a stock rad they will give you all the cooling you need.
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and so the saga begins
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well its been a long time but the 400 has finally made its way to my garage! and with it a great deal of questions. Basic info: 400/400 pulled from 71 gran prix #99 heads and 4bbl carb. So to my questions, i'd like to keep the HP range around 350-400, however i won't complain about more! and was looking to spend around 4k, is that reasonable. Next thing is i've read on the forums the #99 heads are pretty much junk and make low compression. What heads do you recommend to use ? Then pretty much the basics....forged crank ? cam ? s/s valves ? forged pistons ? aftermarket oil pump ? intake ? rebuild stock carb or aftermarket ?...etc i'm all ears, what specific products have you guys used and recommend, and anything special to do along the way ? Thanks in advance...i know with a little help along the way this is gonna be fun.
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You mean "96" heads?
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99 heads are listed for 71 400. They are small valves with non threaded studs listed at 96cc chamber. If you switched to the 96 heads They have the same 96cc chamber with big valves and screw in studs, so You not lose cr and gain big valves and screw in studs. Use the carb and intake manifold that came with the 400, Get Cliff's book. The manifold should still be the non EGR type. Forget the forged crank Get the forged pistons and after market rods
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If all your going for is 300-400 hp just use all the stock items. The Ram Air III engine used factory rods , crank & cast pistons & those were good for 366hp. If all your budget is for 4k you can get some good heads like eldobrock heads on top of the stock set up & you will have a very good engine. The biggest & best thing to do is have the entire assy. balanced, have the rods shot peened & buffed then they will be good for about 450hp with the stock stuff. A good machine shop will make a world of difference. -
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I don't know why you would not use the E-Heads, thrier only $ 2000.00 a set then that leave $ 2000.00 for the rest. If you reuse all the hard parts & install the new parts needed like oil pump timing chain & gears , gaskets then the rest is machine work , you should have some left over even.
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Been awhile since you've built an engine I am guessing.
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my budget is not set in stone but even so if i do spend more i intend to build the bottom end first...i'd rather say spend the extra 600 and stroke the motor, do all the bottom end work first, stay stock on heads then when the speed bug bites i could just swap heads and not have to pull the motor again! but thats just another idea right now
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