200R4
 

I almost hate to ask this as I dont want to start any wars. But I have decided to go the OD in my driver Tempest. Looks like the 200R4 is going to be the easiest route. I am running a 455 with 3:42 gears, so I wanted to see if anyone knows what are the best ones to get. I did some searching, and it looks like '86 and newer. I plan to pull one from the yard and have no idea what they put em in.
So I guess what im looking for is what car and year can they be pulled from to be the best i can find. Please be realistic... im not gunna find a Turbo TA or GNX in the yard. Thanks in advance.

Any 2004R trans is going to require a heavy duty high performance build, so any core will work. The valve body on the GNs are better, but whoever builds your trans should include the valve body upgrades in the build anyway. Find the cheapest core you can, so it can be gone through thoroughly. There are rumors a Chevy-only bolt pattern exists (as opposed to the dual pattern BOP and Chevy). I actually have never come across one, but you should check to make sure before you buy. Obviously if you source a core from a BOP engine, it should come automatically with the correct pattern.

FYI, when you talk to a builder be sure to inform them what engine you're using. Many rate their trans by hp, but it's really torque that limits durability. So putting it behind a 450hp Turbo Buick V6 is a whole different animal than putting it behind a 450hp Pontiac torque monster.

Not that different at all!
Torque is not the primary durability issue, it is also incorrect to believe the Poncho V8 will produce more "torque" than a equiv HP Turbo V6 Buick - it would likely be just the opposite if comparing peaks.

If you desire to work with a 2004R and put any significant power through it be sure to seek out a REPUTABLE 2004R specialist!

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/transmission-talk/

Getting it built by someone who may just happen to be local is asking for wasted time and money.. even IF they regularly build TH350 and TH400's for Racing.

Core source benefit depends on the cost to acquire it.. checkout people parting out Monte Carlo SS's

Setting up the 200-4R for use behind a 455 is not "black magic". It started life as a tiny little transmission which was never intended to see that kind of power. It was a "stretch" to use them in the GN's, and every single one I ever knew who ran their GN's hard or started making engine upgrades smoked the 200-4R in short order. Back in those days, even well prepared units would typically last no more than one, and two at the very most, seasons of racing.

As with most anything else, the factory upgraded them several times, they started to get pretty decent hard parts and shift programs by 1986. Units made prior to 1986 will REQUIRE a hardened stator shaft, hardened pump rings, hardened sun shell, probably a direct drum, and a few other forged/billet parts if you want it to live at all behind anything making over 200HP!

As mentioned above, using a builder who knows them, doesn't matter what year you start with, they should be using the good stuff everyplace anyhow. If you are building your own unit, or using local assistance from a trans shop, starting with the later units may save a few dollars in hard parts, that's about it.

It's no secret I'm not overly fond of these units. There are parts out there for them that will survive 600 ft lb torque engines, but I still don't get a "warm and fuzzy" putting one behind a 455 that will see considerable strip action with good traction. It is THE transmission to use, if you have a relatively "mild" set-up, and only see the dragstrip once in a while with street tires or less than perfect traction. You just can't beat the small size, ease of installation, and the gear ratios those units provide.......Cliff

I may just try to find one in good working condition and use it for a bit before building it up. I live in Daytona Beach and really cant hot rod at all down here.... too much traffic. Thats why I want to try to get the strongest factory build I can find. My poor bad ass poncho has become more of a show machine since moving down here.
Also I refuse to put my cars on a trailer (unless they break!), so since any drag strip is over an hour from me, I doubt it sees a track for a while.

aren't they all non-lockup? my memory is getting old and i, too am rethinking this trans for a street cruiser.

I may shell out some bucks to get a good converter for when I do build it, and if it will swap without problems, be able to switch back to the T350 if I wanted to race it.

The 200's are the same length as the short tail TH-350's. The mount is further back, but they take the same yoke, cooling lines are close, as is the shifter location. They are pretty much a direct bolt in replacment for a TH-350.

The torque converters will NOT interchange, and the 200's used L/U converters from the factory.

We set them up for non-L/U converters if being retrofitted into older vehicles. The TCC can be used, but we highly recomend routing the voltage to the TCC thru a vacuum switch hooked to a ported vacuum source, thru the L/U solenoid, then grounding it on a 4th gear pressure switch. This will only allow the TCC to engage in 4th gear at light throttle. Any heavy/full throttle, or shifting out of 4th gear will unlock the TCC......Cliff

There's a article in the current HPP that goes over the basics of GM's OD trannys.

For racing I think the 4L6X/4L7X/4L8X series can handle power and traction. I have a 700R4 which went in in Nov 2007 two years ago. Its been great, takes everything
my 400 engine can dish out every day and the deep 3.06 1st gear is a blast!

Basically I needed something strong enough for the street that I can beat the crap
out of it every day without breaking the bank or worrying about it breaking.
I have put about 16,000 hard miles on it in two years and am very happy with it.

Boo! I was hoping they would interchange! I think I can pick up a 200R4 pretty cheap now that there was the cash for clunker deal. Run it and see what happens....

Good news is it will be an easy swap! Would you recommend taking it to a pro to get the TV cable adjusted correctly, or is this somthing an that anyone (with the correct info) could do?

Also, should I grab anything else that is trans related when I go to the yard (cables/brackets)?

First off, the point is not whether it's possible to get that kind of torque, but that if you rely on hp capability it's not accurate. So let's not get into semantics. I can build a small engine that makes 400hp at 7000rpm, but never exceeds 300ftlbs of torque. Conversely I can make a large displacement engine that makes only 350hp @ 4500rpm, but over 450 ft-lbs torque. If the trans is marginal, of the two, the one producing 450ft-lbs is going to kill the trans first.

2nd of all, torque is the main limitation. That is why GM and Ford use a torque value to describe the maximum their transmissions can take. (4L80E = 800Nm, 4L65E= 650Nm, 4R70W = 700 ft-lbs.) It's not horsepower. Horsepower is just a function of torque and rpm.

This is exactly why I hated to post this question! I really appriciate all the info.... but the question isnt if it will hold up or not... or to what hp/tq.
That debate has been covered multiple times.

Pontiac did an artical called "I feel the need for 4 speed" They took a 200R4 and rebuilt it and stuck it in a 66 or 67 GTO. The artical showed all the ends and out and parts that needed to be replaced, even how to hook up and adjust the TV calbe. If you can't find a copy of the artical email me at [email protected] and I'll print you what I have, there's 6 chapters to the artical and I think I have all but one, be advised I'm going out of town for two weeks so don't be in a rush.
Terry

Here ya go fastest Tr2004r bird around 461ci 3.42 rear my 2 cents buy one from a reputable vendor it wil, stay alive.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn3K6d_e7bw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dp0PngisVI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFaA51l1HmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLQXSygmQM

gtome,

I have a 71 GTO that I completed in June.....462, 510 ft lbs, 3.23 gears, mainly a street car. Made the 2009 Hot Rod Power Tour with 25 miles on the car when I started, occasional trip to the strip. I had a 200r4 built by Extreme Automatics in Ohio (talk to Lonnie), ordered up a nice Continental 10" Jim Hand special (non-lockup) to go with it I couldn't be happier. I have logged over 5k hard miles to date without issue. Shifts are nice and firm, the low gear ratio is fun around town and on the overddrive on highway is great, you won't be disappointed. 2200@65mph with a non-lockup converter.

Easiest swap you will ever make. Bolt it to the back of your motor, move the crossmember back 6". You will have to change the yoke on your driveshaft, that is it. Very simple, very easy. Everybody makes a big deal out of setting up the T.V cable and that was very simple also. Getting the correct centerline from the carb is the secret to the correct amount of travel. Good luck!!

I have a 200R4 - 2004R transmission that came out of a running 86 buick regal. according to the tag on the tranny it was originally in a 1982 cadillac eldorado. I know you are in Fla. but you may have it and a crossmember modified for second generation fbird ( mounting tab cut off and re welded on rear of cross memeber) and torque converter for $100 or trade for decent Edelbrock #2156 intake. I am in KY about 40 south of Cinci OH

I had a lock-up converter in my 200-4R at first, I didn't like it so I called Cliff Ruggles and he set me up with a non-lockup unit from Continental, about 3400 stall. Drives great on the street and couples up nice out on the open highway with about 200 rpm slip. Engine is 505cid with 650 ft.lbs torque, street car not raced, so far it has not exploded :)

Thanks for the offer, but it would cost me more to get it here than to just get one locally.

I did find one that was for sale here for $50. It says it was recently rebuilt and then lost 2nd gear. Came from an 88 Monte. Maybe I should pick it up and have it gone through. Have to ask where they had it done and not go there!

Guy's i put a 2004R in my 69 with a stock 350 and 336 posi.
My question is when it shifts you feel it like a shift kit?? I've tried adjusting it and can't seem to find the sweet spot? Someone told me these trans. just shift that way because they have to build up pressure before they shift? is that true?
Thanks..