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Best type/brand of assembly lube to use
This weekend, I will be assembling my new 400 and I was wondering what is the best type of assembly lube to use? Also, what kind of solvent should I use to clean the parts?
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We have often used STP oil treatment (in the blue plastic bottle) for bearings.
Thick sticky stuff. For flat tappet cams, the grey moly type thick paste on cam lobes and bottoms of lifters. http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/crn-99002-1 Add GM EOS additive, not sure if they sell it any longer. Or Comp 159 http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-159 Or Crane http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/crn-99003-1/ Once your oil pan is on, I pour one bottle across and down the lifter bores. Good for lifter body sides. A bottle of 30 wt motor oil for most other tasks. |
I have been using Lubriplate 105 on everything but cam and lifters for years.
i use Joe Gibbs paste on the cam and lifters. |
I used STP years ago. Great stuff. But man, that stuff gets everywhere. Hard to get it off tools and hands. Maybe that's a good thing.
Lately I've been using Lucas assembly lube on bearings, engine oil on piston installation, what ever your cam manufacturer suggests on cam and lifters, then Bradford Penn for brake in oil. Then dump the oil and filter right after brake-in. |
Here's a second for Lubriplate 105. Comp's paste on cam and lifters.
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KY.
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For MOST engine prelube, it really does not matter what you use, as long as you use SOMETHING.
I also have the big tube of Lubriplate #105 motor assembly grease, it's great if you fire the engine fairly soon after application. The stuff dries-out over time (months.) I use it for distributor/cam gears, pushrod tips, rocker pivots, valve tips, crank bearings, front-and rear main seals (lip-type) etc. When the 105 is used-up, I've already bought a tube of Sta-Lube Engine Assembly lube; but I haven't actually tried it yet. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11%2BMLw6JQSL.jpg http://www.amazon.com/Lubriplate-Ass...lubriplate+105 http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...9L._SY450_.jpg http://www.amazon.com/CRC-SL3331-Ext...ta-Lube+engine I will fill (hydraulic) lifters with ATF on the bench to verify that they pass oil through the metering plate to the pushrod, and to verify lifter leakdown. This also requires EXTRA care when setting lifter preload. (That's why the folks who sell lifters suggest NOT priming them beforehand.) I will set the lifter preload BEFORE installing the intake manifold so I can SEE the preload of each lifter. http://hbassociates.us/Lifter_priming_01.jpg http://hbassociates.us/Lifter_priming_02.jpg Similarly, I wipe piston bores (cylinders), pistons and rings, and lifter bores with ATF as the final lube before installation. It doesn't take much! The timing chain gets engine oil dumped onto it before I drop the intake manifold on. The only critical components would be the flat-tappet cam and lifters. Cam journals and gear get the 105 grease, cam lobes and lifter bottoms (but NOT THE LIFTER SIDES) get the thick, Moly-based paste as is often sold in 1-ounce tubes at ~$7 each. I buy it from Bel-Ray in a bigass brush-lid tub for about $22; except I bought mine years ago, it's done more engines than I can remember, and there's still a bit more in the tub. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11j-wzLxLdL.jpg http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006B24KBG/...=IBKOD4J9SOF8M Remember that all the thick, moly-based paste you slather onto the cam lobes and lifter feet will begin plugging the oil filter as soon as the engine starts. If it weren't for the moly-paste, break-in oil filters would go MUCH longer than 20--30 minutes. When breaking-in an engine, I also install a Frantz bypass oil filter using a roll of asswipe as the filter media. These things are tremendous at pulling-out fine wear particles, the expensive break-in oil will last hundreds if not thousands of miles--although changing the main oil filter at 20--30 minutes is required if you're using the moly-based grease. I change the roll of asswipe when that filter is no longer hot when the engine is up-to-temp. The bypass filter may not stay with the engine permanently; although I chose to leave one in place on the 454 in my boat: http://hbassociates.us/Frantz_far_001.JPG This installation was intended to be permanent from the beginning. It taps into a small engine-oil gallery such as the oil-pressure gauge might use; and this one dumps directly into the oil pan. I had to drill the pan, and then install a bulkhead fitting to screw the hose adapter to. A temporary installation might return the filtered oil using an extra oil-fill cap in the valve cover, drilled and fitted with a hose adapter. Simple, fairly inexpensive, and transferable to another engine if it uses the same kind of oil fill cap. The supply side can use any oil port if there is room in the chassis for suitable adapters. |
When you removed the toilet paper, did it come out looking somewhat like a filter or was it a big glob?
Some of the stuff out there today turns into a glob in your sewer drain pipes. Just wonder what some oil temp would do to the stuff if cold water can cause the glob effect. And the glob occurs with-in a few minutes TV |
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Oil, on the other hand, doesn't affect the toilet paper that way. The roll of asswipe comes out looking like...oily, dirty asswipe. The filter will absorb some amount of water (condensation) from the oil--a couple of ounces, maybe. I've never had a problem with "media migration", the technical term for asswipe moving out of the filter and into the oil pan. The toilet paper used in these filters is the old-style single-ply, thin, scratchy kind like you might find in commercial settings. Not the plush "modern" stuff that needs five layers or you poke your finger up your butt when wiping. |
Oil on everything, except cam lobes and lifter faces. Moly paste on cam lobes, lifters,
Pressure up oil system just before starting engine. The oil will displace any other lubes used, and end up in oil pan/filter. IF the other lubes were actually needed for their lubrication qualities, you'd have a problem. (except the cam needing moly paste)........... I agree w/ Schurkey about setting lifter pre-load, before intake installation. I watched my engine builder pre-lube his engines on the stand BEFORE installing the pushrods, watching lifters to make sure oil flowed out of each one, this would be the time to replace one, if it's acting funny...not in the car.... |
Also, don't get the Moly paste on the sides of the lifters. Only get it on the cam lobes and lifter face. If it is on the sides of the lifters, it can prevent them from spinning good during initial break-in, and wipe them, and the cam out.
I use ATF on toilet paper or paper towels to clean the cylinders out, after I wipe them out with lacquer thinner. Lacquer thinner is pretty harsh though, but the black, nitrile gloves hold up pretty well to it. You'll be amazed at how much dirt you will pull out of the cylinders with the ATF after you clean them with other cleaners. |
I use Michigan Bearing Lube for everywhere except flat tappet lifter bottoms. It's about the consistency of really light Vaseline, and it does stay in place. It was made to protect bearings and other surfaces on start up, and it is the only lube* I have found that isn't already on the floor (or bottom of the pan) by the next morning. It mixes completely with the oil and doesn't do nasty things to the filter medium. It was a basically clear lube, but a few years ago they began tinting it red - guess the marketing polls showed red sold better. Luckily they didn't screw with the actual formulation.
* Okay, there are other products that don't drip off, but they also don't dissolve and mix with the oil. |
I use the Clevite, Melling, SpeedPro, or like assembly lube, it's usually green or red. That's for everything except HFT lifters, that gets moly.
Most lubricants' carrier is colored, and it's just that, a carrier, and the lubricating properties remain, even if it looks like it's run off. It remains until startup, even if that's years. (Unless you turn the engine over a bunch of times maybe, but think a film still remains until rinsed with oil). Regular engine oil doesn't have the same properties, or not as much as the assembly lube does. Think it's important to use the proper lubricants during assembly, greatly increases your chances for a successful build. And when do folks say the majority of wear occurs? Hence the purpose of assembly lube. STP isn't a lubricant by the way, think it might even say on the can not to use for assembly. I've never gone to any lengths with filtration other than an OE style filter for startup, figure as long as you don't get bypass you're good. Oil & filter change after cam break in, another change after a few runs to operating temp and tuning maybe, once at about 50-100 miles, then 500, 1000, and regular intervals after that. Cut filters open every time. Lifters, for HFT, now, if I ever were to use them again, I would disassemble, clean and inspect. Viewing flow before the intake goes on is kind of pointless in my opinion, since once it starts, regardless if it flows, it could still be sloppy. No flow you would see at disassembly, blockage or whatever. Might make sense for HRs, can't disassemble, but there too, they can flow and still be sloppy. . |
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I used to use assembly lube which came in squeeze packs, it was green, and honestly forget the brand. Someone gave me a big bag of them, and I recently ran out. So for my latest assembly, I needed to purchase some lube, and it wasn't clear what I was going to use. So I ordered several.
I ordered Brad Penn, Comp Cams, Torco (Edelbrock), and Sealed Power, and compared them. First, prices vary. A lot. Like the Torco stuff is 4 times the cost of the Sealed Power stuff. Comp's says it's good for both cams, lifters, and bearings, and started to look at the rest of the products. They are all now stating that they work in both applications, bearings and cams/lifters. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bpo-571-7105 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-102 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1075 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-55-400 The Comp stuff is white lith based, not sure I like that idea. Moly based is what clogs filters, so if the assembly lube is not moly based, that's a good thing. When I did the HFT in the clone, the cam swap, and a number of lifter changes etc, I was using moly on the cam and lifters, guess it was an old school/habit thing for me. I still do too. (except on the rollers, they get the red/green stuff). Anyway, I used up most of the Torco on this past assembly, mainly because I thought the cap might leak in my goo box. (nipple with a cutoff line, and I cut off the rib that holds the cap). Comparing them all, I would have to say the Sealed Power was the best deal, and was comfortable knowing it would work, since it's basically the same thing as SpeedPro, Clevite, Melling, and the like. Green. The Brad Penn would be my second choice. All work just fine, just my personal choice. . |
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Except the engines look great on tear-down after plenty of service.. Just love the internet. |
I wasn't trying to bash anyone, but an engine builder that builds $25K+ engines you would think could spring for a $5 tube of proper engine assembly lube.
Don't take my word for it, can do little homework and come up with an answer for yourself: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013...ses-and-lubes/ It's a viscosity improver with zinc, so, technically, you could mix it with engine oil before using it as an assembly lube. You can also use just engine oil as an assembly lube. Both would be ok IF you start the engine within a reasonable period of time, but, it runs off, and doesn't provide any benefit once it does. Or very little. That's the whole point of assembly lube, which is why they make a product that is actually called 'engine assembly lube'. You be the judge. Me, personally, will use the correct product for the intended purpose. . |
Nix on the Lubriplate inside any engine for me. Have seen several engines wiped out that were assembled with the stuff and then the owner got sidetracked and the engines sat....and the lubriplate (white lith grease) set up into cement. I wouldn't even use the stuff on window regulators...it locks those up, too.
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Synergyn Assembly Lube was recommended to me and used by a group of guys i run with.
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I am no expert so be warned. I am going to build my first Pontiac soon and it will be a roller engine. I don't plan on using any assembly grease/paste/slime. I am going to use Mobil 1 5W30 and a Mobil 1 oil filter. I plan to prime it well while having a friend slowly turn the crank. Once primed well it will be immediately fired up on the stand and run in. After checking for leaks it will be installed and driven. I will cut the filter open at 500 miles to see if I destroyed it. It just seems to me that a build using roller cam/valve train and checked for proper clearances doesn't have a need for assembly products just an oil that provides a proper film strength.
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It's not like GM or Ford or anyone else making cars primes the engine AT ALL. |
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