more 4 speed conversion confusion
 

I managed to get the trans fully seated but it was very difficult. I tried not to force anything.
I pulled the coil wire and turned the engine over with the starter.
I could see the tailshaft spinning thru the gargantuan hole I had to cut in the floor.
success?
no.
the clutch doesn't seem to work at all.
I have lengthened the pushrod as far as it will go but nothing.
the trans seems to be stuck in gear and the shifter stick itself wont seat fully into the housing.
the Zbar seems like a really goofy design compared to the one I pulled from my 66.
how do you tighten that nut on the frame end of the zbar? the one with the ball on the end.
in my last thread, some suggested perhaps my clutch is in backward, and now i'm wondering. would the trans seat completely if the clutch was in backward?
man...i'm dreading the thought of tearing this all apart again but I guess that's what is best.
i'm wishing I never started this now.

You could not have bolted the pressure plate up if the clutch was backwards. Is there more to this thread I am missing?? Make sure you have the right fork and ball in the bellhousing.

First remove the trans. Verify that the clutch disc and pilot bearing both fit the trans. Assemble the clutch disc, pilot brg, pressure plate. Make sure the clutch linkage is assembled correctly. Install the throwout bearing in the fork. Does everything fit with the correct adjustment of the clutch rod? If not you might have the wrong throwout brg or the wrong adjustment rod. Did you align the clutch disc with the pilot brg? If so the trans with a little wiggling should slide right in. Good luck.

just to speed thinks up. what type of bellhousing, flywheel, clutch, fork and throwout bearing are you using? stock? aftermarket?

I did a clutch swap recently and found out the hard way there is a lot more to this than simply bolting everything in and calling it good. Although that is exactly what I did the first time. I simply had the flywheel machined and put in a Centerforce clutch. I threw it back together and I had to smash the clutch into the floor to get it to shift.

Turns out, the flywheel machining meant the pivot ball needed to be replaced with an adjustible pivot. The CF clutch I chose was .250 shorter than my earlier Ram clutch so I ended up using a McLoed adjustible height throwout bearing to make up the difference. I also used adjustible dowel pins to dial in my bellhousing to .001 (which took forever BTW) but my trans now goes in like butter and shifts like it too.

Is the driveshaft in yet? If not the output shaft will spin even in neutral. When you modified the pilot bearing did the inside diameter "tighten up" when you installed it into the crank? perhaps causing the input shaft to spin with the crank. What do you mean shifter stick itself wont seat fully into the housing? The z bar ball stud should fit into the tab on the frame (I think it's been awhile)the treads are ground down on two sides so it fits in the slot of the tab welded to the frame.

wow thanks for all the help!
I bought the clutch as a kit from napa.
the z bar came off a 68' GTO.

yes, I used the alignment tool to align the clutch and pilot bearing. i'm sure the pilot bushing didn't "tighten up" because the alignment tool fit easily, but that was my first thought too.
I managed to get the trans to seat...just had to get the angle right.

exactly how does the fork and ball and that springy thing behind the fork go together?
I think this may be where I magoo'd.
does the fork rest on the ball, or does it attach to the ball?

if you used a store bought plastic tool not so good.Always use a old input shaft from a broke trans.Tom

Is this the ball pivot your talking about? The fork rest on the ball and is held there by the clip. Which can be knock out of position when installing trans.

I think I may have slid the clip under the ball, attaching it to the fork.

if you did that is correct. Once clip in you could hold the Bellhousing upside down and it won't fall out. Can't you remove the shield and look up in there? Is the driveshaft in the car?

Which kit from NAPA? It's rare the kits have the correct throw out bearing, most are too short or too long, I forget which at the moment.

Take pics and post.

The clutch disc should have a stamping or label that says 'flywheel side'. In general, the raised part of the hub should go towards the pressure plate.

What kind of flywheel bolts did you use? If you have a part number that would be best to post that info.

What kind of bell housing are you using? Factory? Aftermarket?

How did you orient the tabs on the fork when you slid the throw out bearing on? Google 'install throw out bearing on clutch fork' under images and choose an image that best shows how you did yours.

Post a pic of the trans, and the shifter. Might as well post a pic of the hole you cut too, and the z-bar.

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It is absolutely possible to install the clutch disc backwards. I have seen it done. If installed backwards, it will do as you describe. I would verify that it is, indeed, installed with the side marked 'flywheel side' facing the flywheel.

Not sure why turning a flywheel would require the use of an adjustable pivot ball, doubt you can take off enough material from the flywheel to matter. Curious as to how you came to that conclusion though. Most of the time when an adjustable pivot ball is needed is due to an aftermarket bell housing, motor plate, or some custom/multi-disc clutch.

In general, to determine if the throw out bearing is the correct length/size, when assembled, and at rest, the flat pad where the clutch rod goes on the fork, should be roughly at a 90 degree angle to the centerline of the trans, or maybe slightly forward. If it's way forward, the TO is too long, way rearward, the TO is too short.

That shorter pressure plate is roughly the difference between the 2 most common throw out bearing sizes, could probably have done the longer one and been good. The adjustable ones are not cheap, and usually folks recommend that one to avoid any call back. Basically, there's really only 3 different throw out bearings for GM cars. (see attached)

Remember, there's several adjustments for clutches, free-air (or air-gap) and free-play are different.

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Yup. The results are usually that the clutch will not disengage.

Same thing if you use the wrong flywheel bolts, the heads protrude far enough to contact the disc, preventing it from disengaging.

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I've torn it all back apart.
here is a photo of the pilot bushing. it's fine and the input shaft fits in there.
a photo of the alignment tool, butted up to the input shaft.
a photo of the throwout bearing, which hopefully has been installed correctly in the fork.
a photo of the clutch, which says "flywheel side" right on it, and was installed correctly.
a photo of the bolt, which holds the cover on. looks to be 1" or 15/16".i think these were "mr gasket".
scratching my head and waiting to hear your thoughts...

and a photo of the shifter that is still stuck...

I feel for you.
FWIW:I had a 77 Camaro that would stick the shifter like this & had to crawl under the car & move the levers on the trans by hand before it would work again,also had to move the bowl on the steering column.
Check your linkages for play & the trans levers

Disc
 

The hub/ spring area will hit the flywheel. since it is raised, unless you are doing it with a blindfold on you can not get the pressure plate to bottom out on the flywheel with the clutch on backwards. I actually just tried it after reading this. Centerforce dual friction it is not possible to do.

Tranny woes
 

Is the bellhousing concentric with the crank ?- aftermarket bellhousing aren't real exact on their location in re-guards to the crank. When I put my scattershield on- the bore was way off center to the crank and had to get eccentric locating pins (Lakewood). Most clutch manufacturers stress the use of an indicator to make sure the crank and bellhousing bore lines up. There is a gauge available to make it easier as the indicator method is a pain. Just my 2 cents. Good luck