Dealer Code Question
 

I am currently documenting a '65 convertible with factory 4spd/tripower for the registry. It has the following dealer code: "07 631". When I look at the available dealer code info, it indicates Pontiac Motor Division Store in Pontiac, MI. Can anyone confirm this dealer code? Did Pontiac have a factory outlet in Pontiac?

Thanks! Bill

Correct. Otherwise known as the "Pontiac Retail Store" in Pontiac, Michigan.

My neighbor (now passed away) used to work there.

K

Original Pontiac Retail Store in downtown Pontiac.

Currently in use as artists studios.

The block that you see at the top is a freight elevator that could be used to shuttle cars between floors.

K

(Eric White photos)
http://www.whitehouse-graphics.com/i...il_wrecker.jpg

http://www.whitehouse-graphics.com/i...helevation.jpg


http://www.whitehouse-graphics.com/i...ail_street.jpg


http://www.whitehouse-graphics.com/i...l_swcorner.jpg


http://www.whitehouse-graphics.com/i...televation.jpg

Keith,

Very cool old brick building with an awesome Pontiac history!

Thanks for sharing those photos.

Just curious...Why would I purchase a car at the factory outlet versus local dealer? Were they cheaper? Could I still special order a new car? I can't imagine that the local dealers were too happy about having a factory outlet store in the neighborhood. Bill

Good Gosh Keith!!!,...I mean, all the contributions and pics you share with us is so amazing that if I had anything left to perhaps think that I might be adding to any positive points of discussion of said topic seems a waste of time!..sorry,my meds kicked in, again,I want to thank you for so much unselfish factoids!!

Thank you, and you are welcome. I should add that the "modern era" Retail Store was farther north on Woodward, on the east side of the "loop" north of M59/Huron Street (65 University Drive). It was torn down in the summer of 2009 or 2010 or so.

It was provided to serve as a retail delivery service for Pontiac employees. I don't know if the general public (or employees, for that matter) could order cars through the retail store, or if they could only pick up existing vehicles or used/expensed engineering cars. But yes, they were purchased at a discount.

I can't imagine that the Pontiac dealers had too much to complain about, since the Pontiac assembly plant was their bread and butter. Discounts are still available today to GM employees when they make a new vehicle purchase.

K

Here's the original location, for comparison:

So - with all the discussion about the Retail store I forgot to opine: This is cool!

I would love to have a car that came from one of the engineering or retail dealer codes.

I put together this list from Pete's book of the dealer codes which received '63 Super Duty Catalinas. I think it is a pretty comprehensive list of "special" dealer codes that have ties to the factory.

K

Keith, I think a lot of those dealer codes are known now.

Here's a couple photos of the Pontiac Retail Store. One is from 1958, and the other is from nearly the same angle, circa 2000. Also a cool matchbook I found at the Pontiac-Oakland Museum.

Mike

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1441134349

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1441134349

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...1&d=1441134349

Thanks, Mike.

I saw that first pic (in a small version) but the overall coloring mistakenly made me think it was a shot of Bob Longpre.

Your second pic is the same exposure as my first picture.

If you have any of those dealer codes and could shoot them to me I would update my notes.

Thanks,

K

17-991 would have been the Zone office in Jacksonville, FL. Possibly a Company Car build.

In part, from John Wallace Dealer Code List:

08-020 Arthur Pontiac, Inc., 3077 Mayfield Rd. at Lee, Cleveland Heights, Ohio, operated at that location from 1959 to 1984 from what I can tell.
03-401 Regester's Pontiac, Inc., State Rd. & West Chester Pike, Upper Darby, PA (originally Bushong Pontiac then became Regester's Bushong Pontiac, I believe by '63 it was just known as Regester's Pontiac).
10-464 Frank Shaver Pontiac Inc., 5800 Hohman Avenue, Hammond, IN (this one is a little confusing, the Hammond store was opened in 1935 by Frank's father, Eugene Larue (known as E.L.) and I believe simply called Shaver Pontiac. Frank had Shaver Preferred Motors in East Chicago, IN from 1948. When E.L. died in May, 1960, Frank took over his father's dealership under the Frank Shaver Pontiac name. I don't know for sure if it was known as Frank Shaver Pontiac or Shaver Pontiac, but I believe the formal business name would have been Frank Shaver Pontiac, Inc.
09-649 Sam Swope Pontiac, Inc., 126 Breckenridge Lane, Louisville, KY, Swope already had been in biz as a Chrysler-Plymouth dealer, switched brands when he got the Pontiac franchise in 1961. He relocated to a brand new facility at 4311 Shelbyville Rd. in 1966 and proceeded to expand his lines, remaining at that location until the late '80s. The company remains in biz today (not sure when they gave up Pontiac). The building that Swope originally occupied is now used by an AAMCO Trans shop today along with a couple other businesses.

Well, there ya go Keith! Thank you John, once again your research has helped us all.

I'll try to add to the list:

10-529 - Welter Pontiac, Inc., 1900 Lincoln Way East, South Bend, IN
12-011 - Allen S Pontiac-Oldsmobile, 408 Liberty St, Covington, IN
24-112 - H&R Pontiac-GMC, 764 Main St, El Centro, CA
07-493 - Stan Long Pontiac, 10450 Grand River Ave, Detroit, MI
16-583 - Stephenson-Wilson Inc., 823 Morgan St, Durham, NC

I know I have 22-345 in my files. I recently ran across hundreds of dealer codes from that area of Texas, but haven't updated my spreadsheets yet.

Mike

Ha! Always enjoy seeing what I can discover.

Didn't realize there was a 2nd page.

12-011 is actually Allen's Pontiac-Oldsmobile. The Owner was Schuyler Allen and his wife Ilene., so conceivably could have incorporated as "Allen S", with the S being the initial of his first name. But I see obits of several past employees, always referring to it as Allen's Pontiac-Oldsmobile.

07-493 Jim Causley Pontiac, Inc. Note the spelling, I believe John Wallace has it misspelled. They were located at 17677 Mack, Detroit, MI in the '60s. They have relocated (and Pontiac gone) but the company is still in biz.

16-583 Stephenson-Wilson, Inc. which was dba Stephenson-Wilson Pontiac in Durham, NC. It was located at 823 Morgan St. in the early '60s. By '69, the property had been sold to another auto biz and then the building burned down around 1979.

Never noticed that one.
I corrected it but with some info.

Jim Causley Pontiac is actually zone 7 dealer #99, which I did have correct.
(and 100 and the 493)

:)

John, thanks!

With the alphabetical "convention", I have to wonder if Jim Causley (07-099 and/or 07-100) )would have acquired the additional code(s) already by 1962-1963 or if that happened later and 07-493 may have been assigned to somebody else at that time?

Any idea how early Causley obtained the 07-493 code? And which code(s) applied to the Mack Ave. address and what address for 07-493?

Keith, I'd like to correctly credit the original photographer of the modern pics displayed above. He is POCI & Michigan Widetracker chapter member Mike Woody. That is Mike's Tempest parked on the street in front of the building.

Mike was part of a POCI exploratory committee charged with identifying possible locations for a possible POCI-sponsored Pontiac-Oakland museum, possibly located in the Detroit/S.E. Michigan area. This was in the early to mid-2000s, long before Tim Dye founded the current POMARC facility in Pontiac, IL.

As I understand it, the committee was comprised of about a half dozen POCI members, including John Sawruk. They looked at a hand-full of sites, but the POCI could not pull the trigger on any further developmental commitments.

Here's a link to an early PY Forums-based, weak as it may have been, attempt to organize a formal P-O museum.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ghlight=museum

As you may read there, my first feeble efforts were very suddenly and very ably overtaken by the current POMARC. I am still of the persuasion that a “satellite” or adjunct POMARC in the S.E. Mi area would serve to draw out a lot of local historical materials that need to be saved from the landfill.

A lot of Pontiac's history is ending up in the trash. As an example...

A local friend of mine, who is both observant and history-minded, noticed a dumpster outside of a home in his local neighborhood that had been unoccupied for some time. He kept an eye on the goings-on, and soon noticed a pile of comic books in the “bin of death.” He is not a comic collector, but is an automotive literature collector. After a day or so of no additional action (and no rain) he liberated nearly 3,000 books ranging in age from 1965-1990-ish. A day later the dumpster was gone. Here is a large pile of comics that were abandoned by someone, discarded by someone, and saved from oblivion by someone.

Can you imagine all of the historical PMD/Oakland materials that could end up the same way, saved from oblivion?

John, I think I'm missing something here. Did someone have 07-493 listed as Jim Causley Pontiac?

07-493 is Stan Long Pontiac, which fits in the alphabetical assignment of dealer codes (1967).

07-100 is Jim Causley Inc, 38111 Gratiot Ave, Mt Clemens, MI (1981)

Mike

Wow, awesome information!

Tim gets donations all the time, and you can imagine how many people bring in boxes and boxes of stuff from old Pontiac dealerships. No one had anticipated Pontiac going under when the museum was planned.

Are there any photos of the interior of the Pontiac Retail Store when it was in operation? I'm sure there's a few pics in the Pontiac Museum, just haven't run across them yet.

I agree with Mike Noun (as my father-in law bought a couple of cars from Jim Causley, ((when he was located on Mack Avenue in Detroit (on the East Side). Today they are on Gratiot Avenue right before "Downtown" Mt Clemens as you are going North on Gratiot Avenue.

Jim Causley made the move out of Detroit well before Olds and Pontiac went under.

Tom V.