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quick ratio steering box
going to replace my leaking steering box. I see Ames carries a quick ratio box at 2.6 turns and the regular one is 4 turns. anyone tried this quick ratio box and have an opinion ? summit sells one for almost 500. the Ames one is 269 and the regular one is 99.
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What’s the part number? It’s probably the Lares box. It’s not a bad unit, but I wouldn’t call it great either.
When I put one in my bird it was initially very stiff. Once it loosened up some it had really great feel and on center characteristics. The problem is that it has continued to loosen and while it still has pretty good feel, it’s on center slop has increased beyond what I consider acceptable. If you can budget it for it, I’d go with a Lee or Turn1 box. They are more expensive, but this is a get what you pay for scenario. |
Borgesian makes a good box at a decent price - I have one in my 69 bird: https://www.borgeson.com/Power-Steering-Boxes/
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that's a significant price increase. the Lee boxes are over 1k. it looks like the Ames boxes are Borgerson. the cheaper one at Ames is 10 times cheaper than Lee. I might just be saving for it though
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Wow - if Ames sells the Borgeson 800130 box for $269 that's an awesome deal!
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its not entirely clear they are. the description on the page reads like they are but it does not specifically say it in the listing
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Related.....
When a company says "This all new power steering box has a quick ratio with firm modern steering feel" What is modern steering feel ? That statement says nothing unless it is further evaluated ! "It's the torsion bar, not the gear ratio that provides 'modern' steering feel." That quote from this thread: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...hlight=valving Additional info: https://leepowersteering.com/pages/s...feel-explained Personally years ago I bought an AGR box with 12:1 ratio and upgraded from the standard 210 valving to a firmer 220 valving. Absolutely outstanding out on the open road with the firmer valving. The upgraded valving provides a firm road feel, like what you might find in a modern sporty car like a BMW, etc, yet for my needs it's adequate for around town and related parking. ( you will note in conversations some do not like a AGR box. Personally I've experienced no issues over the years with mine ) . |
Four things you need to know before buying a steering gear that fits the vehicle:
1. As said, it's the torsion bar that controls the steering "feel", not the gear ratio 2. The gear ratio controls the amount of steering wheel motion needed for a given turn, and in general, most old domestic cars have WAY too much steering wheel motion/high numerical gear ratio. There are exceptions. 3. Pump pressure controls the amount of steering "assist"; in combination with the torsion bar stiffness. GM has even gone so far as to produce variable-pressure devices (EVO--Electronically Variable Orifice) that allow high-pressure at idle and low speed, and reduced pressure at highway speed. In terms of our older vehicles, GM increased the PS pressure sometime around 1971. 4. Different chassis designs require different STEERING STOPS. Older A-body famously has steering stops on the steering knuckle, which bang into reinforced sections of the lower control arm. There may be ~45 degrees of Pitman arm travel. F- and X-body--and others--have steering stops built into the steering gear. They may have ~30 degrees of Pitman arm travel. If you use an F- or X-body steering gear in an older A-body, it'll take forty acres to do a U-turn. I learned this the hard way. "Turns lock-to-lock" means NOTHING unless it's correlated with the degrees of Pitman arm motion. You can install a 2.5 turns lock-to-lock steering gear into a vehicle that had a 4-turns steering gear, and gain NOTHING in steering quickness. You're very likely to lose steering angle, though. The difference may not be the gear ratio, it may be the steering stops. The 2.5 turns box is merely the same ratio as the 4 turns box, but with restrictions on how far the Pitman arm moves. It hits the stops sooner, which is the only reason it's got reduced lock-to-lock motion. Bonus Info: LOOK at the Rag Joint on the input end of the steering gear. If the metal "safety stops" are polished...the rag joint is DONE. The rubber/fabric disc deteriorates over time and with use, at some point they become overly flexible. Steering precision suffers and the steering wheel has to be perpetually sawed back-and-forth to keep the vehicle on course. Some vehicles are famous for wiping-out the rag joint (GMT400 trucks, for example) but any vehicle with a rag joint is a candidate for rag joint renewal, or replacement with a U-joint. |
Not sure if it’s relevant but I used a Jeep Cherokee box on my 68 GTO. Bought hose adapters from Borgeson, bought the box from a salvage yard from a low mile wreck
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I've been running the Borgeson from Ames for a couple years with no complaints. It is a little stiffer than stock.
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I installed the Jeep Grand Cherokee box in my '66 GTO as well. Bought it reman'd by Lares from Rock Auto for $136 a few years ago. For the price, I figured I'd give it a shot. So far, I'm very pleased with it, although I've only driven my car at lower speeds around my shop during restoration. The 2.5 turns lock-to-lock is pretty great.
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I replaced the Jeep Grand Cherokee box with the Borgesen 800130 box over the winter. It was a good upgrade. The Borgesen box has firmer feel on center. The JGC box always felt kinda like a Mopar P.S. system. Way to light on center, felt over boosted to me. This is in a 65 a body.
Murf |
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Nowadays we have it easy to get quick ratios. Years ago when Saginaw boxes were all pretty much the same, we shortened the steering arms on the spindles to gain quick steering. The 67 GTO in my signature pic had that mod done by me, 2 turns lock to lock. It surely helps out on a dirt track.....:D
I made a jig up to hold the parts in alignment while I welded the arms back together. Afterward I heated the welds up and stress relieved them with a hammer. Ahhhh, the good old days......;) |
FWIW...love my Borgeson 800130.
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Got my Borgeson 800130 from Ames. Not too many miles driven with it yet but it feels great so far.
https://i.imgur.com/h4lPhXU.jpg |
I guess Ames it is. don't have the funds for a 1k box right now
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I looked through my Ames print catalog and noticed they had two Borgeson boxes, one for $399 (manual) and one for $549 ( 12.7:1 RATIO. 3 TURNS LOCK TO LOCK).
The other boxes from $299 up into the $400's were re-manufactured boxes requiring a core charge and core sent back in. I suppose the quality of the re-builder vs Borgeson quality would make alot of the final decision to buy from Ames. On the other hand, curently, Borgeson is offering ther 12.7 box for A-bodies for $467.78 and has a 3 year warranty. Which to get:confused: If I didn't have other priority things to do on my GTO first ($$$$), I would opt for the Borgeson deal now along with their new rag-joint. FWIW https://www.borgeson.com/Borgeson-St...7-1-Ratio.html |
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