Roller lifters. Tick >> sewing machine sound. OK?
 

Have 100 miles on new engine, built around 2014 and first drive last weekend. Stump Puller roller cam with first gen Comp lifters and KRE heads. Running 15W40 oil (why 15W40? I have loose main and rod clearances plus a lifetime supply of free oil). :)

Multiple lifters had TERRIBLE ticking noise when engine first fired up in 2014 until they pumped up. At the time I built the engine, I was not aware of the issues with sticky plungers and recommendation to clean in acetone before install, and installed them after a quick wash in solvent. After the first startup, they were quiet will all subsequent testing.

Fast forward to last year when I got the engine in the car and fired it up for first time in 9 years. Had bad ticking that I traced to #8 exhaust. Readjusted to 3/4 turn from zero lash, plus added a can of Seafoam and it seemed to get quiet.

When going for first drive last Friday, was originally quiet but after 20 miles I could hear a tick again and traced to back of PS bank, thinking it was #8 exhaust again. Took the car out again Saturday and tick still there but not getting worse. Regardless, I don't like it.

Took PS valve cover off last night and decided to readjust valves using the method Cliff uses, bottom out plunger of each lifter, using a feeler gauge between the valve and rocker (I chose 0.020"), and locked them down when lash was gone then removed feeler gauge.

I marked the rocker nuts on most valves and checked how many turns I had originally tightened them down, and most were around 7/8 turn from zero lash, however #8 exhaust was 3/4 turn from zero. I then started readjusting and ensuring that once the lifter stopped bleeding down and the pushrod just stopped turning, I locked the nut (with feeler gauge in place).

Some interesting findings:

-#8 intake and exhaust pair were very easy to get to bleed down. Each 1/4 turn of the wrench past zero lash took about 30 seconds for pushrod to start being able to spin again.

-most others took over a minute or two to bleed down after 1/4 turn. One in particular took me close to 25 minutes to get completely bled down. Clearly they are very inconsistent :(

-After adjusting them 0.020" from bottomed out, the new locknut position is clearly much lower than 3/4 to 1 turn from zero lash. My marks were hard to see at this point, but it appears many were 1 1/2 to 1 5/8 turn compared to the previous adjustment.

So I button everything back up and start the car, and initially was disappointed because it still ticked, and thought it was a bit worse than before. Let the motor warm up and after about 2 minutes ticking seems to go away but now I hear the "sewing machine" noise that others have mentioned. Didn't hear this before at all...seems like I have traded the tick for the new sound.Ran the air conditioning and engine got nice and hot, still no tick. Well that is a bit of an improvement I guess.

My #1 goal is to get miles on this engine and do some tuning and enjoy the car. I am not about to spend another 1K on lifters and tear into the motor changing parts unless it is being hurt. The new sound bothers me, but slightly less than the tick. :oogle: I know (now) that these lifters are a known issue but did not when I assembled the engine and not much I want to do at the moment.

So...aside from the sound, should I be concerned about this? How many have driven with the older Comp (Singer Sewing) lifters without issue?

I would loose no time in getting those Comp lifters out of there while you still have Cam lobes in good shape.

You have spent enough time screwing around with them already!

I suggest you take that SP cam out of there and sell it to me cheap. 😋

The sewing machine noise folks mention I thought was from roller rockers. Could that be your sound? If so, I would leave well enough alone. Also, what is your oil pressure?

i have the newer comps on old faithful. they tick when the engine is fully heat soaked, about 3500 miles on them so far. i am going to drive it until it blows up. if you KNOW you have a problem, by all means, fix it. but hot rod engines can be noisy and you can drive yourself crazy (and broke) fixing things that aren't even really broken.

as they say, you pays your money and you takes your chances!

If you went ahead and replaced those 2 lifters on number 8 and adjusted the valve terrain more like normal I think you would be a lot happier.

The sewing machine sound is likely your rockers. That is normal for many full roller rockers. I had ticking lifters for years without issue, other than they were annoying.

I agree with Jay that you may want to simply replace the lifters you have ticking currently. The problem would be finding just a pair of that old style lifter.

The old hyd roller lifters were Johnsons,next were Shavers and now the new cartridge lifters.Tom

I had the original comp roller lifters for a couple years on a aluminum head 467 with OF cam, they were noisier than I liked but was assured by comp & SD that the ticking wasnt a issue mechanically and wouldnt hurt anything. I was told to use seafoam too but that didnt really help, I just lived with it for awhile then asked about warranty replacement when the new "S" version comp lifters came out, luckily they were warranted & replaced, new S lifters are much better & only slightly tick when fully heat soaked on very hot summer days.

The original lifters specifically said 1 full turn past zero lash for adjustment, but the new S version said 1/2 turn, Ive read a few times where people where adjusting the original comp hyd roller lifters to less than the suggested 1 full turn which probably contributed to the ticking issues. Ive considered cliffs adjustment on the new lifters if they got any nosier but so far the 1/2 turn comp recommends is working ok, gotta expect some level of noise from these inconsistent tolerance lifters.

The biggest thing that seemed to help mine was using a thinner oil suggested by SD & comp, they both said to use a 10/30 oil to help with the ticking. You mentioned loose bearing clearances, what is current idle & hot psi with 15/40? Might be worth a try to use 10/30, if it provides decent psi at idle of ~20 and jumps up to 50+ hot that is more than acceptable for a street engine that runs under 5500 rpm and very well may help improve the noise. Free oil is great but if its not needed or causes other problems there is no reason to use it when good quality oils are availabole for like $20-25 for a 5 qt jug at walmart or on sale at other stores.

The S lifters were the ones made by Shaver industries in SoCal.They were replaced to the new replaceable cartridge lifters.Evolution is what they are called.Butler is very high on them.Tom

I run the "old" comp lifters. They are fine at 3/4 turn down from 0 on aluminum heads with road paver cam. I have run 10w30 and it has 20w50 in it now.:eek:
Got 3 cases of that sh!t. No problems. My main and rods are mid 20`s.

Which set of older lifters had the problem with the oil band in the wrong place or was to narrow only allowing part time oil pressure to the plunger?

Not happening...it hauls ass!! :)

Crap, you are right, I got mixed up with what caused it. Perhaps the sewing machine sound was there all along and now that the tick is gone, I am noticing it? If it is "normal" for roller rockers to sound that way, then I am happy.

Oil pressure is 20 PSI hot idle (750 RPM) and around 45 PSI at 1800 RPM (cruise). This is on the rallye gauges, tapped at hole beside distributor. I would have to check my notes but with a mechanical gauge on the engine test stand I think I got 18 PSI at hot idle.

By memory, mains are around .003, rods are .003 to .0032. Using a factory crank that was ground .010/.010 and they ground on the small side :(

I think your better off having the sowing machine noise than have it clack. A really poor bleed rate on a lifter set at the top of the travel is more likely to eventually collapse. I wouldn’t be afraid to drive it with it set at the bottom of the travel. But I would still recommend replacing the lifter or lifters you think are making noise with new ones sometime. Before you run it a lot like that, make sure it is getting oil fed up to the top end. Sometimes lifters cut off the oil to the pushrods when the plungers are bottomed out like that.


I have roller rockers with HFT,SFT, HR, and SR cams on most of my street cars. They can make a very faint whirl, but you have to pop the hood to hear it, none of mine make a sound that is anything obnoxious, and that is with cams that are over .6” lift. I think most of that extra noise people complain about comes from extra acceleration somewhere in the valve terrain.

As spring pressure is increased or seat timing is decreased (adding acceleration and making the cam more aggressive) that sowing machine noise usually gets louder. With that cam it could have been there before and you couldn’t hear it over the lifter click. But the sowing machine noise could also have got a little louder with the lifters almost bottomed out. At .020” from the bottom, some of the lifters (like the 2 that were noisy before) will actually fully bottom out in operation, adding acceleration to the valve terrain. Rhoad's V max lifters make a similar sowing machine noise, basically doing something similar. They bleed down until the plunger in the lifter bottoms out, and create a sowing machine sound.

I would not waste my time with any hyd roller lifter. Pay up, get some BAM solid roller lifters with DLC option with a .060 restrictor.
Based on the old Crane SR lifter but with coated bushing.
If 2000 HP engines are not hurting them and they are living a long life under those conditions a street engine with low spring pressures are never going to hurt them.
Its a old tale that you have to adjust them all the time. If you run a stud girdle the lash stays set. That is what I did and never had to adjust them for 3 racing seasons. Just checked to be sure.

Maybe I missed it but what rocker arms are you using. Some budget rockers have loose clearances and they will add noise to the valve train.

Crower stainless in 1.65.

Started engine tonight to change oil & filter. Let it run for 20 minutes at idle with AC running and got good and hot, still no ticking. Valve adjustment seems to have done the trick. Fingers crossed! :)

I found that to be a non issue. Those were Johnson's by the way. Had this discussion many times and posted pics of the 2 sets of lifters side by side, and with tom S's help determined which were which. One set I ran was Johnson's, the other set were the S lifter from shafer. All from comp supplied at different times.
Oil bands were drastically different heights. Ran both in a 455 and both were dead quiet with lash set properly, hot idle oil pressure 40 lbs.

Where things go sour with this stuff is poor bleed down rates due to sucky quality control. Morels are known for this, just depended on who was supplying the lifters to the cam manufacture at any given time. Hylift Johnson's are typically preferred, people just don't want to pay out the nose for them now. Son just paid $1140 for them and are now over $1600 since they had a price increase. It's why the new evolution lifter is becoming popular and so far good success.