4L80e questions.
 

So I picked up a (supposed to be a runner) 2wd 91-96 4l80e this weekend. $200 and only had to drive like 5 minutes. Seemed too good to pass up even though I don’t really have an immediate purpose for it.

Temptation to put it in the Firebird. Makes me wish I had paid the extra for the Terminator X Max instead of the normal Terminator when I installed that. Looks like it’s $1000 to upgrade. Tactical error on my part. I also hate to give up the money I have invested in my th400 converter from TSP.

Kicking around the idea of throwing a kit in it myself. Everyone always says “They are good to 600+ ftlbs easy with minimal upgrade. And that they are an easy trans to work with.

What are those upgrades? Because it’s an early unit I assume I need a different direct drum with the 34 Sprag deal? Is that all I need for it to live behind my 461?

Honestly if it were a 97+ unit I might be inclined to toss it in as is.

Even though I got it cheap when you start adding up swap parts, converter, cross member, controller. Even without any rebuild cost it’s probably 2k+ in parts.

Also, most of the adapter units for BOP to Chevy trans say, th400, 700r4 etc. there is no reason if it works for those it wouldn’t work for a 4l80e right?

You’ll need to figure out what year it is. The very early models typically will need the internal harness upgraded.

I believe that is the case for 91-93 model transmissions.

A fully implemented trans-go hd2 shift kit that includes the pump mods as well as the complete valve body modifications will typically be able to hold upwards of 700hp. It’s not a parts problem with the stock trans, it’s holding power.

By duel feeding the direct drum you gain needed holding power. When I had my trans built I also opted to have additional frictions installed in place of the wave plate.

If you were doing high power drag racing with decent traction you may want to add a billet input shaft. For most of the cars in the street section though, just the HD2 shift kit is going to create a bulletproof 4l80e.

I was told it’s from a 93 truck behind a 350, there is a tag on it that says “91”

Will the HD Shift kit be enough even if it only has the 16 sprag direct drum? Or is that a required update

I believe it has the early harness. I have pictures but the forum has been finicky and keeps timing out when I try to add attachments.

One would think a 30 plus year old trans was likely rebuilt at least once, and the TC has a sticker on it that doesn’t look that old. But if it had been rebuilt I would have thought it would have the new harness.

I used an adapter plate from JEGS - only issue was it didn’t clear the dipstick tube so I had to modify it. I got the TSP converter from Cliff and provided the thickness of the adapter plate so the converter hub and mounting points were padded accordingly - flex plate clearance was perfect.

I'm not an expert on these. But I believe that you can not put a late sprag on an early drum. You would have to change the complete drum itself.

That said I don't believe at the power level we are talking about here that the early sprag is an issue from a power holding standpoint. What I've read is that the sprag's issues come into play with higher RPM's not necessary power. When I say higher RPM's that appears to be the case above about 6500 rpm. The drum is very heavy and at those RPM's the sprag simply can't handle the shock of immediately stopping the drum.

If you're making less than 700 ft lbs of torque and you're not spinning your engine past 6500 rpm, I wouldn't worry about the drum and sprag.

I figure your 4L80 has the 34 element Sprag. You could also figure that.
Adapter plate: contour the external perimeter to match your Block Bell external contour.
Vacuum Modulator kit will allow Manual Shifting: Floor Shifter is likely the easiest deal there. I had a Column-Shift.

Hope you also got the GM 4L80 Converter: Gas converter is fantastic with the Pontiac TQ.
Hope you also got the 4L80 Harnes wires leading to the Firewall: plenty length to reach your shifter:add switches for !st, 3Rd, 4Th and be done.

Leave the Converter Clutch unlocked: just a novelty to activate it in a car. Not needed.

Forum finally let me upload some pictures.

I got a converter. I did not get a harness.

I have a B&M ratchet shifter that accommodates 3 or 4 speeds.

And yeah I was more asking if we felt like the 34 sprag direct drum was worth it at 600 ftlbs. If I decide to rebuild it before using it, I would probably replace it anyway, but I might take the dude at his word that its a runner and just see what happens. Just toss in that HD-2 shift kit, change to the new style plug and throw it in with a controller.

I have also considered using the stock converter until a good deal on a performance one comes across my lap locally. Not that big of a deal to change a converter. What Ive actually been thinking is going to the big track and chasing 11.90s, than if I hit that I would be more okay with tossing in the OD and living without a big money converter for a while. I just really want to be able to say its an 11 second car. I had 1/8 mile times last year that make me think I can do that on the current setup.

As far as manually shifting it, I have considered that in the past, but because I have the terminator kit, I would probably upgrade to the Max and take full advantage of the electronic capabilities.

The other option that I have to ask Holley/EFI systems pros about is if I can output the items I would need (RPM, TPS) from the Terminator, to a standalone shift unit. Which while a second box would be annoying, it might save me $500. Upgrading my terminator box as I mentioned is $1100 and the will give you a $100 rebate for your old unit. Im not sure if a working Terminator X ECu would be worth more than $100 on eBay.

I know the Terminator has auxiliary hookups that you can use for extra gauges and whatnot, but I dont know if you can set specific outputs.

The Gas Truck 4l80e converters are actually pretty decent factory pieces. Yeah it may not be optimal, but I don't necessarily think it'll leave you wanting, unless you're really chasing 10ths.

The US Shift Quick 4 can take your RPM signal and they also have a TPS breakout harness that will work with your Terminator. https://www.usshift.com/store.shtml#tpsB

Their breakout harnesses include diode protection so they don't mess with the incoming signal to your ECU and also cleans up the signal heading to your TCU.

That being said, the price isn't that much different now, unless you can find a second hand Quick 4. They are $795 now. They were around $500.00 about 2 years ago.

Given the minimal cost difference, I'd probably opt to upgrade to the Terminator Max.

One thing you'll also have to check with the terminator max is what pressure solenoid it supports. You may need to add the late 4l80 solenoid. The early solenoids are silver, the lates are black.

Well thats good to know, it doesnt say Terminator, only sniper, but seems at least workable. This whole thing might be an exercise in "good deals". Maybe I find one or two pieces I need used.

I was looking at the shift kit and it says you need one of the newer pressure solenoids anyway.

Looking at your pictures I believe you have an early solenoid, so yes you'll have that expense regardless.

If you can find a second hand Quick 4, the unit itself doesn't matter what transmission it was applied to, 4l60e, 4l80e, 4r70w etc. What matters is the harness. So if you can get the TCU then buy the needed harness, that might be the way to go.

If I did decide to open it up and not just replace upgrade the valve body is there a preferred kit?

How would this kit and this direct drum be? There is a local dude who I have worked with before that does $1000 rebuilds for GM automatics. At some point, while I would like to say Ive done it myself, its going to be worth giving a guy $1000 and having it done professionally vs me spending 6-700 in parts and doing it myself. He did a 400 a while ago for me and it was a good experience.

https://www.ckperformance.com/View/D...RETAINING-RING
https://www.oregonperformancetransmi...-4L80E-RB.html

Im going to poke around more and see if there is any market for my perfectly good Terminator X ecu. A new replacement is $700. If I could sell mine for 3-400 rather than the $100 EFISystemsPros offers for a rebate, It would be easier to swallow upgrading to the Max. I believe that price for them also includes the transmission harness.


Take that as a lesson everyone, if you are buying a Terminator, spend the extra for the transmission control if its even remotely possible you might use it in the future.

I actually opted for a separate quick 4 controller. Couple reasons. EFI may not stay with the car but the 4l80 will. I've also been told of mixed reviews, most not that favorable on the Holley trans control features.

So my math earlier was a bit off because I thought the Price from EFI systems pro included a harness. It does not.

So other than a manual shift setup, here are the price options, all including harness.

Upgrade to a Terminator Max. $1326. This is the most straightforward but also the most expensive. They do offer a $100 rebate for your old ECU, or I could try to sell it myself for more.
https://www.efisystempro.com/termina...kit-554-153-tu

Holley Standalone kit. $820, This is advertised for the sniper, but may be able to work with the Terminator as well. They probably just don't advertise that because they want you to buy the Max. Hyperspark is the same, can be made to work with the Terminator but designed for the Sniper. Would have to talk to some tech support and see how plug-and-play this could be. Holley on Holley so there is some hope.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...parts/VK103405

Quick 4. $795 with a harness. May require jumpers talked about earlier, but those were also listed as only for the sniper. The Terminator has more output capability, so I may be able to easily wire in my own signal wires from the ECU to the Quick 4 and save some money. Its been forever since I looked into it, but there is a whole auxiliary harness included that can be used for random things.

So your spread is less than $400 - at that dollar amount I would do the Quick 4

I run a Holley EFI and the quick 4 wires in as its own separate unit, different TPS as I opted to run that separate too so it wouldn't interfere with the EFI signal.

Quick4 is a complete stand alone deal

Don't overlook manual shift with some switches added to your shifter, without any computer.

Do you need the extra long dowel pins with an adapter plate?

I did not have to get longer dowls with the Jegs adapter plate.

Me neither!

I wanted to comment again on the original question on how to control the transmission.

As I’ve spent some time with my setup which is a FiTech with a Quick 4, there’s been a couple issues.

The biggest one to me is that I’ve got multiple boxes and wiring harnesses all over the car. It kind of drives me nuts.

The second is that the computers don’t talk to each other. The FiTech has no idea when something like a torque converter lockup event is happening and it can cause some harshness at times as a result. Nothing damaging or anything like that, but the driving experience isn’t as polished as it could be.

If I was starting from scratch I would build the car with a single vehicle control unit, like the Stealth Terminator Max. You’ve got a single box, one main harness and the unit knows everything that is happening.

This thread is old and I don’t know if the OP made any decisions, but I’d upgrade to the Max knowing what I know now.

I still think the Quick 4 is a great controller and their service is great. If I was adding an electronic trans to a carbureted vehicle it’s the route I would go 100%.