Clutch,press plate, flywheel
 

Looking for some info here on how to proceed, flywheel was billet flywheel i bought from PPR back in 2010 had the motor out twice since then so im assuming its been turned, not sure in 2023 when i got the motor back, clutch and pressure plate are about 3 yrs old, pretty sure i put new stuff in when i bought the TKX 5 speed.

By pics if your saying the flywheel is bad or needs to be turned again, would i then need a longer ball stud in bellhousing.

Am i better off just getting new flywheel, clutch and pressure plate.

Thanks

Rich

Never a issue driving like this the last few years, no clutch chatter, no grinding of gears, ive had a rear main leak for a long time, so im assuming some oil or oil mist might have gotten up there, the bellhousing was aways covered with oil inside of it.

Rich

Doubt you would need a long ball if you turn the flywheel, in general, not enough material gets removed where it would cause issues.

Just to say, I have new flywheels turned, or at least checked for runout. You might be surprised to find even new ones aren't true.

Have them check for cracks, and inspected. Some suggest 'seasoned' flywheels are better than new (as long as they check out good). I'm kind of on the wall on that tho. Maybe if you know the full history, like you personally bought new and installed.

Same with balance. I always have them check, pressure plate too.

Since it's already out, you may want to go new on the PP and disc anyway, always a bummer to find out it's got issues after you put it all back together. For $500, it's well spent for piece of mind.


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If it was working well when it came apart, I'd risk putting it back in service.

Looks kinda ugly...and inspect the flywheel carefully.

I'm not a fan of the 'assist weights' type pressure plates, but some like them and have success with them. Some have issues with the weights hanging up and/or balance.

There has been some heat/slip of the clutch by looking at the dark spots, not sure if that's from riding it or not enough holding force.



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Treat clutches like brake systems, always wash parts down with brake cleaner before assembly.


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Ok, pulled the flywheel off today, tried to mesure the best i could, hard to hold that thing up in the air and take a pic at the same time. lol.........not the best pics but it shows im a little short of a inch thickness, bought this flywheel new in 2010, so far by looking at past pics ive had, its been turned twice........ i measuraed in a few differnt palaces so its off a hair here or there so this would be the 3rd time, gonna get a new pp and clutch, been using the center force clutch for a long time, but would like to hear any other opinions on a new one, if you guys think doing this for the 3rd time is ok, might try it, otherwise im thinking of just getting a new one.

Rich

I've been recommending SPEC and/or ACT. I lean more towards SPEC, they are less expensive for one, and have firsthand knowledge.

I would recommend the Stage 2+ :

https://specclutch.com/applications/...970&type=14897

Their' website leaves something to be desired, but I always just use a 70 GTO 455 as the app and be done with it.

For ACT, someone here mentioned they used the full organic one, which is the GM4-HDSS:

https://www.advancedclutch.com/produ...ung-clutch-kit

ACT doesn't really give a TQ rating, they just comment it being X% more than 'OE', so I would probably suggest the next step up, which is the GM4-HDG6, but again, I have no personal experience with these, going by what others here have commented on:

https://www.advancedclutch.com/produ...pad-clutch-kit

Also note, it's not often you get the correct bearing/ bushing or throwout with 'kits' for Pontiacs, and you need to be prepared to check and possibly buy a separate one.

I am very abusive when it comes to clutches/manual trans', and have tried many. Plenty of opinions here, so choose wisely.

SPEC does a lot for modern muscle, and use hybrid materials, while many still use the same 'ol same 'ol. Some of the high power modern muscle guys around here use SPEC, and have recommended them to other modern muscle guys who also are very happy with SPEC. Was how I came across them.


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Hey thanks for that spec link............really weird on the prices though stage 2 633 tq $564, go to stage 3 780 tq $409, wonder if that is a misprint

Rich

I ordered a ACT GM6-HDSS from jegs a few days ago. This is the 11" 26 spline..Supposedly rated 700 torque. They had a sale 482.00. I notice now theyre back up to 605.00. Full organic...hopefully it wont chatter like the mcleod half organic/half ceramic does.

So what causes chatter?

* Disc/PP/Flywheel contamination
* flywheel/PP surface not true
* Disc not installed correctly
* Incorrect flywheel bolts/disc hub interference
* Cheap/crappy disc/PP (hub out of true/hub spring sloppy-weak/cheap friction material/uneven PP psi application)
* Extreme cases of driveline misalignment (sometimes not so extreme)
* Crappy tolerances of PP application of 'finger' psi
* Incorrect fork installation (TO orientation/pilot issues/sloppy linkage -Z-bar/rods wobbed out/engine ball/frame mount/buckle worn)
* Bad trans/engine mounts
* Wore out rear control arm bushings
* Crappy/worn out rear shocks
* incorrect rear springs/rate
* Incorrect free play/air gap/etc adjustment(s)


That's the list I can come up with at the moment. Have to look at point A to point B, everything in between, it's a 'mouse trap' system, everything needs to 'line up' to work 'properly'.

Can't blame one specific item, if everything is 'true', even one sub-standard item in the chain can be off, but if more than one, it's cumulative, and adds up in the end.

And that's my after dinner & drinks mind dump! Heheh!


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Take it to the machine shop, let the expert tell you if it's suitable for another cut.

One would think that the flywheel manufacturer would have a "minimum thickness" spec, just like for brake rotors...although I've never seen one. I also haven't been into a manual transmission since the '80s, either. Have you contacted the flywheel manufacturer to see what they suggest?

Just get the flywheel fuzzed by a real machine shop with proper grinder. Not a lathe, a horizontal wet grinder with magnetic hold down.
Don't let anyone touch it with a brake lathe. Seen many screwed up that way. Chatter boxes.

Thanks for that heads up Dragncar, was packaging stuff up today and ran into this, seems like my flywheel bolts are hitting the clutch springs, dont know if these bolts are stock or not, ive never changed them since i had the car, been 26 yrs now. They are a 1 1/4 long with a star washer, will see if i can get some original bolts from someone, just hate trying to get the right ones aftermarket.

Dont know if this happened after having the flywheel turned twice, thinking if im getting a new clutch and pp, might as well get a new flywheel.

Rich

Never use the star washers, they don’t need any kind of washer. A little blue Loctite if you’re worried about them coming loose. These are a highly stressed high torque fastener and like a head bolt or a connecting rod bolt need no kind of lock washer and especially not a star washer.

So getting rid of that star washer buys you a little more room between the bolt head and the clutch hub springs. Kiss the bolt heads on a sanding belt and you’ll have enough clearance.

Zero dollars spent.

If the clutch was working fine why replace everything? If the clutch disc is oily then get a new one. Everything else? If it was working okay why spend money you don’t have to?

More guys have had issues swapping flywheels and ending up with an engine that shakes from an imbalance issue. Same goes with the pressure plate, just clean it and bolt it back on in the correct orientation it was in before you took it off. Don’t fix what ain’t broken.

I agree, no star washers.

I used to use the Mr. Gasket flywheel bolts, they were the correct length and low profile head and correct shoulder under the head.

Pretty sure it's these:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-914

I should have a set hanging on wall in garage, I will check next time I get a chance.

With the flywheels I used to use (think Hayes SFI heavyweight), the Mr. Gasket bolts had to be torqued with a 6 point thin wall socket. I even filed the end of a socket to take out the radius so there would be more 'bite' on the head. I would chase the threads on the crank, spray down the crank threads & bolts w brake cleaner, and install dry. (pretty sure service manual calls for 'dry').

That contact over a period of time would have made the disc fail. It also contributed to the slip/overheating marks on the flywheel & PP. It's actually a good thing you discovered it prior to failure.


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That contact over a period of time would have made the disc fail. It also contributed to the slip/overheating marks on the flywheel & PP. It's actually a good thing you discovered it prior to failure.

LOL, im finding alot of different stuff lately, when i had this motor re-ringed, i sent the shop, bop one pc oil pan and rms parts along with a 7109 bearing, today im looking at the bearing and able to pull it out by hand, not sure thats right, anyways its a 6202 bearing, that has been in there for 2 plus years now, dont know if this is part of my other issues..........thinking the guy lost the right bearing and threw this one in. Its gonna be interesting when this motor is apart to even see if he put in new rings. oh boy

I appreciate you guys hanging in there with me, hopefully you get a few laughs out of this also

Rich

Thanks for the info guys, put a ad in the wtb section for some flywheel bolts, was at a shop the other day, they told me the ones i already have are stock, about the same size as ames 1/2X20X3/4, so if thats is already hitting my clutch disk, dont think the mr gasket 1/2X20X1 are gonna work. So i take it my flywheel wheel that has been turned down twice, they took a little too much off it.

Sorry for the dumb a$$ question

Rich

It's the head of the bolt that matters, and the Mr. Gasket ones have half the head height bolts.

Look at the ones you have, they have full sized/height heads, and compare to the pic in the Summit link I posted.


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