water pump and pulley upgrades
 

I'm refreshing my 455 in my 69 Bird and decided on upgrading the water pump and pulleys, a few questions, are the CVF products quality , if I use a high flow pump should I still use there there high volume pulleys, thinking of getting their complete V belt system with brackets and PS pump for a non AC car, would like a suggestion on a aluminum pump with factory style, veins .
Also recommendation on a mini starter.

I have CVF pulleys for Sale in the high performance parts section. They are great quality pieces. I also have a Flowcooler AL ware pump that I would sell. PM me if interested.

I tried a CVF V-belt pulley kit for my engine. Couldn’t get things to line up, so I went with a OEM 71-later bracketry and pulley setup.

Their serpentine systems might be better, but have no direct experience with them.

I use a CVF pulley on my balancer in my race car and the quality is great.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/g.../gto/year/1972


This is my go to pump. I drive about 350 miles a week in my Pontiac and these last!

thats a good price

I currently have two FlowKooler pumps in service with absolutely no trouble from either. Currently building a 421 and already purchased their 8 bolt cast iron pump. I should know in a few months how good it is. As for a mini starter I’m a big fan of RobbMc products. I have two of there starters and they are great. Get them with the extra pinion support.

Thanks.

I too use this one

I have a Flowkooler pump. It’s fine.

I’m also a huge fan of CVF. Their customer service is great. I’ve used them a grip of time and if I had an issue they have just replaced it immediately. They are the best blend of good parts and reasonable prices. Plus they put scratch and blemished stuff on eBay even cheaper.

People use worn out pulleys all the time, and it’s just not worth it. It’s so hard to tell if those 50 year old pulleys are straight or worn slap out. Just buy new ones.

If I were buying all new I would buy a ribbed setup and not a v belt.

I use PRW pumps. Ive been using them for maybe 10 years on various projects and theyve been great, good quality. They aren't necessarily cheap but I don't go for something just because it's cheaper.
Ive had one on Dad's GTO for at least 10 years but now that I think about it, it's probably been longer.
I run one on my sons Vega, my G-body, and on my Chevelle. Theyve all been excellent.

As far as pulleys go I use factory stuff on all the cars. I'm not a fan of bling, the stock stuff works as intended with no hodge podging.

I do wish they didn’t charge you extra to get them in black like most of the pulley companies do.

One note on the aftermarket pulleys and brackets. It’s easy to over tighten a 10/12si alternator accidentally. Still a small price to pay to get rid of the stupid double strap design first gen firebirds got for the alternator.

I happen to like the straps. Keeps my thermostat from leaking :D

For water pumps, I prefer a cast iron body and cast full vane impeller. Dayco DP836 is my go to:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/DAC-DP836

Not sure what is meant by the "double strap design"

Are you referring to the extra support brackets used on alternators?

Dad's GTO is that way, many were that way. Some Chevrolets as well. I guess I don't quite understand why that would be an issue. The more the better is my thinking. I don't like that stuff wobbling around, especially high rpm and throwing belts. So if it's more solid, I'm all for it.

All our stuff is factory 50-60 year old OEM brackets and pulleys and it all bolts on and works perfectly. I've never had a reason to change any of it.

Some people just like the modern pieces with serpentine belts and such. That's fine if that's your flavor.

Stock stuff works great, keep the butchery down.

This nonsense pictured. I went through multiple peices with both factory parts purchased on eBay or here on the forums and aftermarket ones. I never got two that lined the slot up right.

I realize this may seem like I’m over reacting. But I suppose we all have little thing that get under their skin and I hate that design. I’ll die on that hill. And Pontiac knew it was a dumb design because they changed it in the 70s. My factory bracket efforts also always flipped the belts at high RPM on the track. Went aftermarket and the problem went away.

If you have good 70s brackets those are fine. I would still use newer repro pulleys. That said, while some people won’t like the look, and that’s fine, I like being able to tighten belts with a turnbuckle.

I realize this is debatable, but I personally think buying a made to go together aftermarket kit eliminates the cobbling and butchery. I can’t tell you how many project cars I’ve had with mismatched cobbled together factory pulleys and brackets. If it works it works, I’m not fixing something that isn’t broken, but if I get a car that has a janky setup, I’ll never again go through part numbers and try to piece together an original assembly buying multiple 50+ year old pieces from different sources. Just give me the aftermarket kit once and be done with it.

Perhaps I'm not knowledgeable regarding the latest models for Pontiac.

Aftermarket pulleys look like "Mickey Mouse Ears" to me. And, generally, with insufficient belt-wrap on at least one of the pulleys.

One issue I see in that photo is the belt not sitting in the pulley correctly. It's either too wide of a belt or an incorrect pulley. I could see that belt flying off just from that scenario.

If you're forced to buy brackets and pulleys second hand, searching ebay and what not, that's always a sketchy proposition no matter what the part is. There would be no guarantees you're not getting tweaked parts or modified stuff someone else monkeyed with, making it a real headache for the end user. Some of these back yard mechanics are real hacks, and pretty much ruin a lot of what would have been a good used part. Many times that's why it's for sale, lol.

For what it's worth I have much better luck at swap meets where I can eye ball the part before buying. Or if it's available new that's an option, however I am very seldom impressed with repop parts, whether it's blingy shiny stuff or factory replacement stuff. There always seems to be some form of modifying necessary to make repop stuff work like the OEM stuff does. That's just the nature of this hobby.

The Dayco DP836 now comes with a stamped steel impeller not cast iron and wanted to update the information I provided. They swithed over a year ago but old stock might be floating around.

Pontiac engineers knew what they were doing.
 

Will throw this out for the 47th time...

FIRST.... ALL '69 Pontiac V8's were originally assembled with a 4" hub height cast iron water pump. Over the years have rebuilt quite a few of the '69 "351" casting 11 bolt pumps.

To further iterate,, there is NO such thing as a '69 1/2 Pontiac V8 water pump.... that is nothing more than a term thrown out there by mistaken parts peddlers.

The 1/2" taller hub height 11 bolt water pump, the '124" was introduced in August of '69 for all 1970 model Pontiac A-B-GP models, & in Jan on the new 2nd Gen Birds.

Beginning in the late Fall of '69, that exact 1/2' taller hub height pump was introduced in service depts as a SERVICE REPLACEMENT on '69 V8 models (except "69 Firebirds) when it was combined with the correct application '70 model Pontiac V8 wp pulley ("127", "128", "129", "130")

Further, there is a reason the '70 model "124" casting 4 1/2" hub height water pump was never factory installed on a '69 V8 Bird.
That reason is evident when working on '69 Birds w 4 core radiators.... when the later 11 bolt wp & corresponding '70 wp pulley is substituted, the fan is jambed up too close to the radiator.

Checking out!