[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"i have had a few 65 gtos in the past and i looked for the 5n on the plate,there was not but i had phs for both and they were real gto. so to me the 5n theory is not the best way,send for phs"

This is a True Statement.

Quote:

"Where they built in KC or PON? My guess is they were Baltimore or Fremont cars. The 5N theory as you call it, does not apply to B or Z VIN cars.

The post above is in reference to a car built at the Pontiac Michigan plant, again, if it had a 5N on the data plate, it is a GTO pretty much guaranteed. If it does not, good chance it is not."

Part of the confusion here is that the people from a famous Pontiac/other Parts Supply House published a GENERIC statement many years ago that ALL GTOS had to have the 5N to be a TRUE GTO. As was mentioned above, they only had it half right (Pontiac & Kansas City vs Baltimore & Fremont). This Half/A**ed Research has lead to a lot of other assumed logic. The PHS paperwork does eliminate a lot of this confusion.

Quote:

"If I see filled in emblem holes or no "5N", I don't bother w/PHS."

Again, as a GENERIC philosophy to buying a GTO and considering RAJohn's valuable time, his method looks pretty good, but what about a car that was repaired at one time or a guy who found some NOS LeMans sheetmetal vs rusted metal and had it put on the front or rear of his car? GTOs DID get into accidents over the years vs being trailered all over the country in present times.

I was in the center lane getting ready to make a turn when an idiot in a Corvette clipped the rear of my GTO.
Does that mean the car is not a GTO any more because it has "filled hole" LeMans sheetmetal on the car? I don't think so. By the way, I asked that the welds WERE NOT ground down, as I could explain why the mint quarters were on the car.

If you can afford it (the price keeps going up) get the PHS documentation. You might save a lot of money if you want a "real" GTO. Otherwise, people who are not so concerned about "flipping" a car, might like to have a really nice LeMans that looks like a GTO for a lot less money.

JMO

Tom V.

ps PHS is not perfect as Pontiac EMPLOYEES were not perfect either. There are at least three legit non 5N cars from Pontiac/KC in existence to my knowledge.