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Old 03-13-2009, 11:36 AM
John V. John V. is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,765
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Tony, BTW, welcome to the PY Forums! I hope you won't be a stranger.

Thanks for the detailed answers, very helpful to me. I will especially note what you've provided for Box 47 & Box 56.

I'll submit the two Dealership Names to Ultimate. They make perfect sense, when originally assigned, the Dealer Names were assigned alphabetically within each Zone, Arrow Motors and Bickley Motors fit the alphabetical pattern.

Didn't think it was so common back in '64, but I suspect that the Iowa Dealer did some sort of Dealer trade with Arrow Motors just like happens today. Last summer my wife bought a new car. We cut our deal with our local Dealer based on the package she wanted knowing that he would get the car "no problem" even though he didn't have one in stock, he checked inventory in the Southeast Zone and found what she wanted at another Dealer about an hour away and made a trade to get it. She had it the next day. The Window Sticker shows the name of the other Dealer where it was originally delivered, but that's not who we bought it from or where we took delivery. I'm guessing that is the same scenario that brought the Black GTO to Iowa. Only difference, it may be a little easier today to keep track of the Inventory by computer, but I do know that they did track Dealer inventory even back then.

Don't know a lot about the Wheels. The coordinating '64 Wheel Color for an Alamo Beige car would have been Saddle. I'm guessing that would look more brown than the off-yellow color wheels on the car. Anything possible, but perhaps the wheels were swapped from a later year GTO (not sure what year may have used off-yellow as one of the wheel color choices). I am not up to speed on them, but you can also check for the date stamp on the wheels to see how they would match to the April build. I'm not familiar with the hole you mentioned either. Haven't paid close attention to that kind of detail.

MUN 407623 makes sense to me. It would probably have had a Block cast date around C254.

A comment about the J33. Yes, the GTO had just been announced. But there is a misconception about when PMD started producing the GTO. '64 Final Assembly production at the Pontiac Plant began on Sept. 3. The GTO announcement was timed just as the '64 models were permitted to go on sale at the Dealerships. But the cars had already started to fill the showrooms in the weeks prior. The earliest GTO build was no later than Sept 11. The Engine Assembly Plant would have started to assemble GTO engines, same as all others, prior to the start of production and of course the foundry was casting components for them earlier still. So a J33 Block is early but the earliest cast date in a GTO engine would have been weeks earlier.

This is a long read, but here is a recent thread you might enjoy:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=580192

Story about the '64 GTO convert I owned 35 years ago. It had the original 3 spd in it when I bought it from the original Owner. It didn't take me long to buy a 4 spd and swap it in. The 3 spd was left at the curb and resides in a landfill today. I repeat that story often to beat myself up over youthful stupidity! Worse, I basically abandoned the good running car (last known to be at a towing yard near Wood Dale, Ill. in late 1979, seen it around??!!).

Yes, the Radio, Antenna, & Speaker options were coded in Box 44. Unless something very strange happened, this car left the factory without a Radio option. "Radio Delete" is a hobbyist created misnomer. The Standard Content build for a Pontiac A body did not include any Radio, you couldn't "delete" what wasn't there. If you didn't order one, the standard trim plates were installed.

However, the Radios and Antennas were offered as Dealer Accessory Packages (I assume the Front Speaker and the Radio Trim Plate was included in the Radio Package) so it would not have been uncommon for a car that was ordered without a Radio to have gotten one Dealer installed. But I would be pretty confident to say that the Alamo Beige car rolled off the Final Line without a Radio.

What is the Time Built code for the Black GTO, not clear in the pic?

PHS has confused lots of KC (Balt is the same) Owners with their decodes. The KC Code 452 Washer & 2 spd Wiper Option is pretty common so LOTS of KC Owners have been incorrectly told their car was built with the Tach. Another common option is the Mirror Group option. On a KC Doc, the combination of the Visor Vanity Mirror and Remote Control Outside Mirror is coded as 605. PHS will incorrectly decode this as the combination of Console & Electric Clock. PHS has told KC Owners that have Code 452 and Code 605 that their cars were built with both the Tach & the Electric Clock!

As an aside, I think both Options are cool. The '64 Tach is somewhat lame functionally but I have one to install in my GTO that was built with neither option. And I have always loved the look of the Rally Clocks. I dragged a few of them home from the junkyard 35 years ago but never found one that worked, or didn't know how to install them correctly. Unfortunately, I didn't keep them. Either option spices up the '64 I.P.

But until I'm convinced otherwise, the KC Code 392 stands as the Tach option.

Interesting the Black GTO got the Code 50 Rad. Not a big surprise, no doubt there was a permitted substitution to the Code 50 Rad for Man Trans cars even if the docs called for the Code 57.

On the trans p/n tag, please confirm if you can, should read 9774825. If I ever find anybody that has a Code WY trans indicated on the KC or Balt doc with the original p/n tag, I can see if it shows the '64 p/n or perhaps the '65 p/n. That isn't a very big mystery since it might just be a manifest code revision just like the Spring Codes, but something to look at.

BTW, my present '64 GTO convert which is unassembled is a Fremont car if you have any questions pertaining to your Fremont GTO.