[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Fullsize455

Because I've driven more than a few cars with 2400-ish stall speed converters that will roll backwards on the slightest incline when in gear and require noticable(IE too much) throttle input to move the car at all from a stand still, that's where. I'm glad you think it's funny, but it's not at all.

Edit: And having heard MANY cars equipped with higher stall speed converters as they accelerate from stoplights and such, and the rpm jumps way up higher than it would with a stock converter. I want no part of that. Perhaps it's a matter of cheap converter vs. good, high quality converter, and I have no problem spending money on good parts, but I want daily driver manners, in a sleeper package that looks stock on the outside and under the hood, with the only way to know any different being to look at head casting numbers.

It's amazing that so many people don't understand where this quest comes from. I guess some of you have never heard of the Factory Appearing Stock Tire drag races? It's the same concept, only much more mild. Read:

"No matter how you look at them, F.A.S.T. cars appear showroom stock, including the body, interior, engine and all its external components & manifolds, even the wheels and original 1960's style skinny bias ply tires. As a matter of fact, F.A.S.T cars place very well at shows for "restored" cars, and even sound stock at idle.

But get a group of them on the drag strip, and LOOK OUT! You will see F.A.S.T. cars covering the 1/4 mile in 13, 12, 11 and some even in the 10 second range, with the fastest cars posting trap speeds of over 130 MPH! You see, F.A.S.T. cars may look and sound stock, but internal engine modifications are not restricted."

The point is, there is a middle ground between being bone stock and making gobs and gobs of power with headers and all kinds of other high-visibility modifications. Again, I want to make the most power that I can while still retaining the appearance and manners of stock. Difficult? Yes, absolutely, but that is why it must be done. No, I won't be running in the FAST races - I'm not THAT serious - I just want to make a bit more power, that's all.

It has nothing to do with being a cheapskate or wanting to skimp on parts here and there, and everything to do with the true concept of a sleeper. Yes, it is a compromise - I understand that. I'm ok with that. But at the end of the day, the 350 or so horses I should be able to make and 450+ foot pounds will still be a HELL of a lot more than I was making before.

It's amazing to me that some people simply want all or nothing, and don't understand someone having a different goal than yourself. It's not my intention to start an argument or cause trouble or otherwise stir up crap, but seriously guys, accept that some people have different goals and try to understand why they might not be the same as yours.

Bottom line: I want to make the most power that I can with what I have - That's all. As I have made clear, I have no set goal, and won't be disappointed with the result, regardless, because at the end of the day, no matter what I do, I will be making a lot more than I was making before. Period.

If these guys running the FAST races with Hemi Roadrunners on skinny bias plies can dip into the 10s when their cars were in the 13s stock, surely I can make a few more horsepower than I did before while still appearing stock. That's the entire point, the heart of my goal. Nothing more.

LOL,,,try asking Jay about his FAST car...

Those FAST cars run big compression,very carefully selected solid roller cams,max ported heads,intakes,and exhaust manifolds,max bore size blocks that are filled to strengthen the cylinder walls,light weight R/A's and stuff like aluminum rods and forged/billet stroker cranks,and the bulk of them use very sophosticated driveline hardware,including high stall converters and lots of different trans/rear gearing variations,often with non-stock low numerical first gear trans ratios with higher numerical rear gear ratios to allow them to hook on those skinny bias ply tires,and dont forget the "special" hidden fuel systems and hardware,or the "special" ignition systems,you name it,trick suspension hardware,the list goes on and on,they are anything but simple or basic cars,underneath all the subterfuge,they are state of the art drag cars,and nothing less.

They just look stock.

And they sure dont run them on 87 octane.

They are'nt anything close to being what you described here upfront.

And they aint cheap to build either.

So that's a really,really bad comparison in my book.

We understand for more than your giving us credit for,my '72 bird closely adheres to what you described in many ways,but I have'nt put the undue restrictions on that car as you gave us in the begining of this thread.

Sleepers come in all sorts & variations,the only real requirement to be a "sleeper" is that the car run quicker/faster than it looks like it would run,so they too can be worlds apart from what you said you were after.

Sorry,but what you described upfront was more akin to the "pure stock" drag cars.

Stock idle
87 octane a must
Stock 2.73 rear gearing
Stock stall converter
No obvious external give-aways
OE log manifolds
Strict 4500 max upper RPM limit
200,000 mile lifespan
Must maintain excellent gas mileage

Must I go on???

And you want a magic HR cam/valvespring package to turn it into a fire breather.

It just does'nt work that way.

The cam needs to match the rest of the hardware being used or the end results will suffer negatively as a result of the mismatched components.

Especially in a big heavy car like yours.

Just ask guys like Darby or Jim what it takes to get those boats moving out.

At times what your saying is completely rational and on target for the most part,but then at other times the context slips outta focus,and you seem to expect more than you really should be in other areas of this.

I had dug up that crane HR cam info,and was gonna post it soon,but I guess that would just be a waste of effort here seeing as the build guidelines seem to have changed.

Good luck with this.



Bret P.