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Old 07-17-2023, 07:59 AM
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Cliff R Cliff R is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 18,153
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Engine power and vehicle performance will determine what you can get away with here.

I had no issues whatsoever with fuel delivery until I started taking steps to make my Ventura faster. Without writing dozens of pages here I'll list below the different fuel systems I had in place in attempts to keep the carb full at higher power levels and faster runs at the track.

Started off with a stone stock fuel system using a factory mechanical pump and 3/8" lines, this was good to high 13's around 100-102mph.

I "upgraded" to a Carter 120gph with no other changes when I installed my first 428 engine around 350hp.

Added a Mallory 7psi 110gph electric pump right in front of the tank when I installed DOT's and ran into issues at the track.

Installed a 455 to replace the 428 and ran into issues so bypassed the mechanical pump and ran the Mallory 110 7psi pump straight to the carb.

Next when that didn't cure all the issues I installed a 1/2" fuel line in the tank to feed the Mallory 110gph pump and 1/2" lines all the way to the carb. Very minor improvement but still ran into issues on hard runs in the 12.30-12.60 range.

Upgraded to the Mallory 140gph pump and added a Holley regulator, no improvement. The car was running in the mid-12's with a best ever 12.34 @ 109mph.

Installed a Holley 4781-2 850 DP carb because EVERYONE told me the fuel bowl was "too small" in the Q-jet. No improvement whatsoever.

Ripped out the entire fuel system and tank. Then welded a CE sump on the tank, moved the Mallory 140gph behind the tank, high flow filter just before it, Holley regulator right before the carb, and 8an lines/fittings everyplace. This IMMEDIATELY cured any and all fuel delivery issues and the car picked up to 12.0's at 112mph with either the Q-jet of the Holley with NO OTHER CHANGES.

Even so the pump too a chit after 2 weeks on the street being "dead-head". It also made a LOT of noise even though it was a gear type pump and it got pretty hot as well, so hot you couldn't touch it after 10-15 minutes of street driving.

I added a bypass back to the tank and replaced the burned up pump with another one just like it. This all happened between 1999 and 2003. Went from 2003 till 2021 without any issues anyplace, pump was nice and quiet, and I won dozens of races including 5 wins at Norwalk in August and 2 trips to the King of the Hill race at that event. I'd add here that the pump was dead quiet and didn't heat up at all in use.

In 2021 the pump started making noise so I removed it and installed the first pump that crapped out, it only needed new brushes put in it and cleaning up the motor on the lathe. I rebuild the second burned up pump with new brushes for a spare.

Moral of my story, NOTHING worked until I sumped the tank and installed a rear mounted pick-up and moved the electric pump behind the tank. That set-up was FLAWLESS for nearly 20 years without the first hint of fuel delivery anyplace. I even installed another 455 that took the performance of the car DEEP into the 11's over 120mph and low 7's at 95-97 mph in the 1/8th mile.

Lessons learned here were that no matter how much pump or pumps you put in FRONT of the tank, even sucking thru larger fuel lines stuck into the tank, the front sump location on a stock type tank leaves a lot to be desired on a really fast car. I was fine until the car started running into the 1.6 second range in the 60'. Once I started leaving that hard NOTHING was going to work until I either installed a sump or fuel cell in the truck to feed a rear mounted electric pump and "push" the fuel vs sucking on it from a high mounted pump outside and in front of the tank.

I don't have an opinion here, only the results of DIRECT testing during the evolution of my car from 300hp to over 550hp with changes made to effectively use that kind of power with good traction. I'd also add that the ONLY time I ever had the first hint of a fuel delivery issue was using slicks or DOT's with perfect traction.

Even with all that said above the water quickly gets "muddied" with this topic as some folks "dead head" electric pumps for decades w/o any issues and they claim to run into the 10's with a stock fuel pump and 5/16" fuel lines pulling from a stock pick-up in the bottom of the tank. We also read about folks curing their issues with all sorts of other methods, and if they work I'm happy for you, but NONE of them worked for me while I took my car from barely getting into the 13's to running nearly into the 10's over 120mph at the track.......FWIW.....

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https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
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