[67428HO]

Hi what are the correct shades of black for the 68 air cleaner base and pulleys. Thanks!

[68ragtop]

Great question. it seems there are at least three "shades" of gloss used the hoods on most cars. But, the info seems to vary depending on the source. For the longest time I thought that the firewall & underside of the hood where the least amount of gloss, the fender wells, heater box (non-AC) & core support slightly higher air cleaner in some cases a touch more, but I have seen them have less on high level restorations. I suppose none of these parts where painted with the same process or with the same paint for that matter. the amounts of gloss probably varied by accident depending on who was painting & supplying what, & not so much on purpose. Just my guess however.

I do like the look of parts having a slightly different sheen than the other components. Gives a more detailed look IMO. 60% gloss is probably correct for most of it, but is really quite shiny. Most cars that were driven back in the 60's probably lost some of that gloss quickly due to the environment & the products used. probably had 60% for the first week of their life

While its probably not correct, I like the look of the inner fenders, etc at a gloss less than 60% The drivetrain on my GTO has been finished for years. The pulleys' & brackets are for sure 60% the air cleaner is probably around 40%, but I believe that is incorrect as the air filter sticker has more gloss than the black paint. I think the air cleaner should be to a level of gloss that is at least what the transparent filter decal is.

Im sure you will get some of the guys chiming in to set it straight this morning.

[68ragtop]

I stumbled on this picture. No clue what correct as its obviously a restored car. The air cleaner looks a tad dull & the wheel wells look like high gloss. weather its correct or not I have never liked the look of really high gloss wheel wells.

At the least it has the "correct" air cleaner decal

[north]

I believe you can break down the black bits of an engine bay into a few groups that relate to how they are sourced-produced by the factory;

...air cleaner (and Ram air hood plates) are all relatively high gloss and seem consistent across the years and plants, 67-75% gloss would seem to be the norm

...frame and related brackets all seem to have been painted a rather low gloss with tendency towards runs and bare spots (my 2012 Suburban frame finish looks just like a 69 frame and rusted just as quick

...firewall, hood underside and the inner surface of the fenders (not the tubs) was like the frame; quite low gloss, in effect a primer for the color coat

...front clip sheetmetal (tubs, hood, rad support etc that were not also being painted body color) seems to vary by plant or other factors, most were well below semi gloss but not quite flat but some cars had noticeably glossier paint, at least semi-gloss. This is most noticeable on home plant cars in 69 which all seem to have this glossier paint on the rad support and tubs etc

[Greg Reid]

I hate seeing dead flat paint under the hood of a car. It collects a lot of dirt and grime plus, it just doesn't look right to me.
I used Krylon 'Rust Tough' gloss black for my pulleys and air cleaner base and also for all of my hideway parts. I used Rustoleum gloss black from the quart can, reduced and sprayed, for the firewall, frame, etc.
Neither of these is as glossy as a base/clear gloss black and they both dull somewhat with time, which makes them just right in my opinion. Both are very durable as hardware store/rattle can stuff goes. The Rust Tough has a very good adjustable fan nozzle too.

[68ragtop]

I have used ppg's DP epoxy as a final coating on suspension parts & various drivetrain parts. I like the sheen it has, but it's probably closer to 30-40% gloss. not correct in most cases. More recently I have been using SPI black epoxy & it looks really nice. They claim it can be used as a final painted surface as well as a sealer & std epoxy. A bit more gloss than PPG & a lot less money. seems to hold up very well. But like most semi gloss finishes, neither of them are great as far as UV goes, So not for the daily driver on direct sun exposed surfaces, but my cars, let alone the parts don't get a lot of sunlight. I have a few painted pieces that I leave out in the elements just to see how they hold up. I have a piece of steel painted in SPI that has been outside for about 18 months in direct sunlight, snow, rain, etc. Just this summer its starting to oxidize a bit. Not bad. it went nearly 12 months of direct exposure with no noticeable damage. PPG's fades quicker, but was never intended for as a top coat either.

[68ragtop]

I was looking at this picture again that I posted in #3.

Doesn't the fender wells look too high of a gloss? I have my firewall & underside of the hood in a satin/ lower gloss primer similar to factory. I am finally to the point where I am applying the final sheens on the under hood parts. I know the radiator support will be a 60-75% gloss, wheel wells & heater blower cover I was thinking 50-60% gloss. higher than the firewall, but not as high as the radiator cover.

What about the core support? same as the firewall? I can't decide. I am trying to make everything a little different & am using a few different products to achieve an ever so slightly different appearance in the parts. I just don't want to go too far the wrong way..... & I am not a fan of flat black & not a fan of full gloss either. I like the 20 shades in-between though....

My firewall looks closer to what the air cleaner is in that picture. I'll post a pict.....

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

I was looking at this picture again that I posted in #3.

Doesn't the fender wells look too high of a gloss? I have my firewall & underside of the hood in a satin/ lower gloss primer similar to factory. I am finally to the point where I am applying the final sheens on the under hood parts. I know the radiator support will be a 60-75% gloss, wheel wells & heater blower cover I was thinking 50-60% gloss. higher than the firewall, but not as high as the radiator cover.

What about the core support? same as the firewall? I can't decide. I am trying to make everything a little different & am using a few different products to achieve an ever so slightly different appearance in the parts. I just don't want to go too far the wrong way..... & I am not a fan of flat black & not a fan of full gloss either. I like the 20 shades in-between though....

My firewall looks closer to what the air cleaner is in that picture. I'll post a pict.....

My core support still has original black paint where it was protected by the fenders. It's pretty close to satin black. I would say 50% gloss or perhaps less. I plan on re painting it back to that same sheen if I can. It's a bit hard to nail it exactly because the gloss level is variable depending on spray technique and temperature.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

My core support still has original black paint where it was protected by the fenders. It's pretty close to satin black. I would say 50% gloss or perhaps less. I plan on re painting it back to that same sheen if I can. It's a bit hard to nail it exactly because the gloss level is variable depending on spray technique and temperature.

Thats really the thing. with experience we can reproduce the gloss levels pretty easily with todays urethanes & flattening agents. I use PPG products & don't see any variance as long as I accurately mix the component ratios the same. My shop is almost always 68-75 degrees depending on the time of year.

But, as far as actually saying what they looked like off the showroom floor seems to vary quite a bit from person to person. I know we all have a pretty good idea & many cars we know are way off.

Here's a great example. I have a unmolested 68 radiator shield from my late father in-laws car. he bought the car new in May of 68. never been painted, but has seen 49 years of life, daily driver from 68-82 & storage every since.

I flipped the cover over to find some well preserved paint. This painted area is under the shield where it meets the core support, so very protected. No degreaser applied, just soap & water & air dried it. I took the picture next to a part I painted at 50-55 degree gloss. look how flat the untouched oem paint looks. Then I used compound & a cloth & it came back to the gloss level I would say was close to how it looked when new? One under the shop lights, one outside under cloudy skys. one quick hand polish brought it from a satin 20-30% gloss to over 60%

These paints just didn't hold a good gloss level overtime imo. If we didn't know what the fan shield should look like & I matched this paint sample it would look look awfully wrong. They add in the fact that its possible to polish a fattened paint to a higher level than it should be & its all of the sudden a crapshoot

[PurelyGTO68]

Agreed. It does vary person to person and I think that is okay. I just don't really like seeing too much gloss on black parts under the hood or on the chassis components. When in doubt, I usually err on the less gloss side. It's easier to gloss up later as shown quite effectively in your photos.

Here are some photos of my 55 that I am working on. Almost done with it but you can see how the inner fenders appear more or less glossy depending on the light source. These are dusty too, when I clean the parts I will just use a wet cloth with a little soapy water because I don't want the inner fenders and suspension components to gloss up any more than they are right now. I think the only thing that is gloss in these pics are the hood hinge springs. The coil is satin. Everything else is some level between. To me this looks okay. Others might not agree but in the end I am building the car so I can enjoy it so as long as I am satisfied then that is all that matters.

I don't plan in having this car judged but if I did, it should judge well....or that is what I keep telling myself.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[will slow gto]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

I stumbled on this picture. No clue what correct as its obviously a restored car. The air cleaner looks a tad dull & the wheel wells look like high gloss. weather its correct or not I have never liked the look of really high gloss wheel wells.

At the least it has the "correct" air cleaner decal

Agreed with everything you said there.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

Agreed. It does vary person to person and I think that is okay. I just don't really like seeing too much gloss on black parts under the hood or on the chassis components. When in doubt, I usually err on the less gloss side. It's easier to gloss up later as shown quite effectively in your photos.

Here are some photos of my 55 that I am working on. Almost done with it but you can see how the inner fenders appear more or less glossy depending on the light source. These are dusty too, when I clean the parts I will just use a wet cloth with a little soapy water because I don't want the inner fenders and suspension components to gloss up any more than they are right now. I think the only thing that is gloss in these pics are the hood hinge springs. The coil is satin. Everything else is some level between. To me this looks okay. Others might not agree but in the end I am building the car so I can enjoy it so as long as I am satisfied then that is all that matters.

I don't plan in having this car judged but if I did, it should judge well....or that is what I keep telling myself.

I feel the same way about the gloss levels.

Soooooo, Are you polishing stainless? I see the polishing wheels in your picts. I just started doing a little research on stainless polishing. One thing I have never done, but intend too soon.

[Frank R]

I used eastwood's engine compartment black on my firewall, inner fender wells and radiator support. I used Ardex low gloss engine black for the pulleys, heater box, voltage reg cover and fan guard. I think I would also look correct on a 68 Air Cleaner base.

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

I feel the same way about the gloss levels.

Soooooo, Are you polishing stainless? I see the polishing wheels in your picts. I just started doing a little research on stainless polishing. One thing I have never done, but intend too soon.

Yes. 1955 Bel Air sedan has a LOT ot stainless. I started off repairing dings and scrapes. Eventually I was able to repair the more mangled pieces. Its something that you can pick up with some practice. I am glad I gave it a try and now I am thinking of tackling more difficult repairs. The buff motor from Eastwood is great. The buffs and compound aren't that great though.....I recommend Caswell Plating for those items.

I just have two pieces left to polish and then I am done with this car. If I ever tackle a classic like this again, I will made some abrasive buffs because doing it by hand with sand paper is a TON of work.

My next car is the 68 convertible.....MUCH less stainless on that car so I am actually looking forward to that part of the project.

[68ragtop]

Looks great! I did a bunch of 70's alloy trim years back. stripped the anodizing, straightened out the dings, block sanded from 120 grit to 3000 & polished. Was time consuming, but pretty easy. I have never done stainless. No doubt I am in for more work. might have to hit you up for more supplier recommendations. most of my trim for the GTO is in great shape, just scuffs from age, no dings or damage. The rocker plates will take some work & I am considering replacements for those, but I have a lot of pride in restoring the original parts rather than bolting on parts made in china or wherever. kinda ruins the soul of the car a little IMO. But thats just a personal opinion without a doubt.

Hopefully you can complete your 68 in far less time than mine is taking me. I hope to have mine finished this coming summer.

[68ragtop]

Back to the under hood colors though. I think if a person uses one brand of paint & just modifies the amount of reducer its not going to pop like it does using different products altogether. I used a UV resistant epoxy primer on the cowl & under the hood. it has a gloss, probably 30-40% for sure. When I put the ash tray cover next to it, the ash tray doesn't look like its crazy glossier, but the color is slightly different. thats what i think helps to make everything look like its painted separately.

I am leaning towards painting the core support the same as my under hood & cowl. then the wheel wells headlight parts, radiator cover & air cleaner slightly higher gloss.

On a related note, what did you guys do with the heater box mounting studs that stick through the firewall? Was going to blast them & paint them back, or maybe remove them & replace them with new studs with a coating on them. silver in appearance. Guessing these studs were natural in appearance & just rusted in weeks....?

[charles bledsoe]

Agree with using different paints on the different components. I would think the factory (assembly plants) didn't do much painting, they just assembled parts provided from different vendors. I am researching or trying to research what Fisher Body did with respect to the firewall. Not sure who built and provided the frame and chassis components, but believed they were dipped into paint instead of sprayed. Most of what I am finding is on the firebird/camaro plant procedures though and not the GTO. Also agree different assembly plants had different practices.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by charles bledsoe

Agree with using different paints on the different components. I would think the factory (assembly plants) didn't do much painting, they just assembled parts provided from different vendors. I am researching or trying to research what Fisher Body did with respect to the firewall. Not sure who built and provided the frame and chassis components, but believed they were dipped into paint instead of sprayed. Most of what I am finding is on the firebird/camaro plant procedures though and not the GTO. Also agree different assembly plants had different practices.

One thing I found was on my hood. the underside had grime covered black primer on the flat skin backside. When I cleaned it, it was a single layer of primer from what I could tell. it had at least a 30% gloss without rubbing it. I have pictures of this. When I media blasted the hood bracing I left the black primer & just sanded it & applied epoxy primer over the top. while the bracing had plenty of light surface rust the panels in-between where well preserved from engine grease.

I'll see if I can find the pictures. I know we are covering a lot of things here but its all under hood related & this topic comes up so many times I really enjoy getting into all the details in depth. Unlike the "restoration manuals"

[charles bledsoe]

Here are some pics of my 69 which I am getting ready to re-do the engine compartment as it is tired and items need re-platting/re-painting. Here are pics of the firewall and upper cowl after removing components and lightly cleaning with simple green.

[charles bledsoe]

Not quite sure what % gloss this is ^ . I would say it is very low and it appears both the cowl and firewall were painted the same %. Not sure how the cars were delivered from the Fisher body plant and then did the assembly paint them in anyway prior to going down the line? Trying to figure how/when the YS 24237 got covered up with paint. It almost looks like there is bare metal underneath where the letters/numbers are. When I first got the car (bought it from the original owner who ordered it new) the YS 24237 was not visible. It wasn't until I started removing components and cleaning that I first started to see something. I had to slowly remove paint in the area to get the whole letter S/numbers to pop out. Anyone know the painting steps at both the body plant and assembly plant? I hope to put it back correctly. When I removed the A/C box the Y and part of the S was clearly visible. I had to slowly remove paint to get the rest of the S to pop out.