[llwta76]

New rebuild and finished seating rings. Have maybe 50 miles on it. Looking at Brad Penn site it doesn't seem that they have conventional oil. Looking for 15W-40 which is partial synthetic. I would prefer running straight dino oil. This engine runs a flat hydraulic cam. Is it okay using their partial synthetic? Also does anybody know what their ppm zinc level is? Thanks, Larry

[Tim Corcoran]

You should be able to get the MSDS from the Brad Penn website which should give you the zinc phosphorus levels

[locomotivebreath]

From their sight , it’s 1500ppm zinc , 1400 phos .

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by llwta76

New rebuild and finished seating rings. Have maybe 50 miles on it. Looking at Brad Penn site it doesn't seem that they have conventional oil. Looking for 15W-40 which is partial synthetic. I would prefer running straight dino oil. This engine runs a flat hydraulic cam. Is it okay using their partial synthetic?

1. Why do you need such thick oil?

2. Why would you NOT choose synthetic oil?

[78w72]

lots of other oil choices out there with sufficient zinc for most "street" or mild FT cams. why do you need 1500ppm for an already broken in cam? especially if its not super big lift & high spring pressure? that high of zinc is overkill & simply not needed for the average mild cam/springs. valvoline VR1 doesnt have that much last i saw & is still more than enough for the average FT cam. can you post specs of the cam/springs? probably be fine with a ~1000ppm off the shelf oil or HM oils that have higher zddp levels. or consider a diesel oil (which are fully rated for gasoline engines) i like & use delo-400 in a ~480 lift FT cam for 12 years now with zero cam/lifter issues, used rotella t prior to them reducing zddp levels somewhat & is now lower than the delo-400.

X2 on the thick 15/40 oil. is the engine built to loose tolerances to need that thick of oil? what does the builder/machine shop recommend? & a synthetic blend will have no issues on a FT cam & add a little extra protection to heat & wear.

[RocktimusPryme]

Above all I would say to use whatever the builder tells you to use. If something goes wrong you dont want to give them any reason to think it was your fault.

Other than that, I think people overthink oil. I see yokels on FB say that running a synthetic will kill a FT cam. That is nonsense, plenty of boutique oils out there today for that specific purpose. I like Amsoil just because they clearly outline what all of their oils are for.

Even then, with a mild cam thats already broken in there are plenty of normal dino oil options as well. As was mentioned, the viscocity should be based on clearances. Which, many builders do seem to use higher clearances in rebuilds. I dont particularly know why. I run 20w-50 because thats what the clearances call for.

[llwta76]

Cam is voodoo 704(233/241 @.050) . Valve lift w/my rockers (HS) is int:525/exh 546 . Bearing clearance is ~.0025 rods/main. Valve spring pressure is 130/340 otn. Brad Penn is popular on this board and wanted a good oil with 1400-1600 ppm ZDDP. Always preferred dino oil since I only put 800-1000 mi/yr on my car and figured it a waste to change synthetic oil every 1000 mi. or so each spring. Thx, Larry

[Schurkey]

If your plan is to change oil every year, change it in the fall BEFORE storage, so the "old" oil isn't marinading the bearings over the winter. Changing in the spring is silly.

"I" would--and do--take oil samples for lab analysis. If the oil isn't contaminated, why change at all? I've got vehicles that routinely go 2--3 years between changes, sometimes longer. As long as the oil analysis shows it's still good, there's no harm.

The danger with older vehicles is fuel contamination and/or blowby contamination. Both can be unpredictable especially with poorly-tuned carburetors.

[Dragncar]

You can always run Dello 15-40 oil. . Ran it for years, no issues.
There was a thread on this stuff a few years back and in it was a link with all the major brands of oil and their zinc content. If someone could find it and post it up it would help this fellow.

[78w72]

x2 on the oil change timing & that no need to change it at 800-1000 miles on a fresh rebuilt engine that most likely doesnt have blow by or fuel contamination issues. also during winter storage no need to start it up, just let it sit stored properly for the winter & it will fire right up in the spring (with fresh oil from the fall change) starting in the winter for a few minutes to "lubricate the seals" has no benefit & will introduce condensation into the engine & oil that wont burn off unless you drive it & fully heat soak it.

an oil analysis is a good idea to at least get a idea of what the engine is doing, first couple oil change after a rebuild will probably show some wear particles as it gets fully broken in so maybe wait on that until the 2nd or 3rd change, then once you know things are good you can go at least 2 seasons for a change if below 1000 miles. i have also waitied 2 sometime 3 years for an oil change, with 3 cars its sometimes hard to put many miles on them in one season, had 500 or less on 2 of my cars for many years in a row & its a waste of money & oil to change it with that low of miles.

others can confirm the best weight for your bearing tolerances but its still best to ask the builder or shop what they suggest, if .0025 isnt considered "race" clearances & they tell you to run 20/50... i would seriously check with other sources, there is no need or benefit to run that thick of dino oil, especially if the car sees cooler spring/fall temps.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You can always run Dello 15-40 oil. . Ran it for years, no issues.
There was a thread on this stuff a few years back and in it was a link with all the major brands of oil and their zinc content. If someone could find it and post it up it would help this fellow.

might have been me that posted the numbers for 4 or 5 popular brands. i think i still have the numbers or can find an older thread. but keep in mind it is outdated by now but still gives a pretty good idea of which oil has what level, i followed a few of them for years after that & they didnt change much. these numbers were for SM that was current until 2011 or so, then SN that i followed lasted to 2019. current numbers are always posted on bobistheoilguy forum for almost every brand & weight of oil.

motorcraft super duty diesel 15w40 - 1334
chevron delo 400 le 15w40 - 1230
supertech 15w40 - 1226
mobil 1300 delvac 15w40 - 1031
shell rotella t 15w40 - 1030

[Tom Vaught]

Agree with the number on the Shell Rotella oil.
Number went from 1340-1370 to 1030.
About 25% less Zinc in the oil today vs years ago.

I would not worry about it with a Roller Cam but a flat tappet cam, you cut the protection by 25% vs in the oil SE oil days.

Tom V.

[78w72]

another thing to consider on the zddp levels in oils that i have mentioned a few times but not to many people acknowledge or realize it, is that todays oils have a lot of other anti wear additives that take up for the reduced zddp, like moly & some others in small amounts so super high levels of zddp are not needed like the old oils. oils have advanced a huge amount in even the last ~15 years or so.

another big thing with zddp is that the newer version used today lasts longer so higher levels are not needed. zddp is sacrificial & breaks down as it wears, the long lasting stuff not breaking down as fast obviously means not as much is needed. valvoline states this very clearly in their FAQ on their website & it was explained to me many years ago by their tech dept when i was researching zddp levels in the early 2000s.

just something to consider for all the people that think they need a ton of zddp for their broken in mild street cams, or the guys that pour in unknown amounts of zddp additives. oil companies state current oils are all backwards compatible with older versions & they are able to do that with modern additives & improved base stocks etc.

also keep in mind many of the cam failures werent really the oils fault... break in procedure has a HUGE role in this & many people dont get it right & that will wipe a lobe or shorten the cam/lifters life. also the metal &/or hardening process used is a big thing related to cam failures, cheaper brands & even name brands back in the 90s or even recently using offshore china metal for cams & lifters probably caused more cam failures than most people realize. then everyone blames the oil & continues the myths that it wasnt enough zddp.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You can always run Dello 15-40 oil. . Ran it for years, no issues.
There was a thread on this stuff a few years back and in it was a link with all the major brands of oil and their zinc content. If someone could find it and post it up it would help this fellow.

Yeah I posted a link a long time ago with a listing of maybe the top 20 oil brands and their contents. Most of that falls on deaf ears anyway as people will just buy what they want to buy. Then of course a flat tappet cam failure pops up and the subject starts all over again.

The other problem is that content is always changing with manufactures, usually not for the better. They are always changing base stocks and additive packages, so you have to periodically check up on this stuff to stay up to speed.

[Jay S]

There was an older test done probably 15 years ago that presented what some of the ZDDP additives do to the oil formula packages. Before blindly throwing ZDDP additives in with your oil, it worth the time to do a little research to see if it works with the detergents in the oil of choice. If it doesn’t need it, don’t add it imho. I can’t recall now the actual guy that did the tests, but you can find some of his results on post 14 here in this link:

https://www.stevesnovasite.com/threa...in-oil.642986/

I would like to think that the ZDDP additives have gotten a little better since that test was conducted. But probably not a lot better.

Personally I thought the Brad Penn 15w40 was a good choice for the OP with that Lunati hft cam. I wouldn’t add zddp to it. I personally like the 15w40 over the 10w30 weight oils with more aggressive flat tappet and solid roller stuff. It is totally just my preference though. I think the thick oil has more residual lubricant when initially started cold, and the extra slightly thicker oil film doesn’t hurt on the flat tappet cam while operating. But there is no question the 10w30 has benefits in other places, and some lighter weight high quality oils probably have as good or better oil film than what I run.

I run Mystik synthetic JT-8 15w40 or 15w50 in nearly everything here, from my street 500-700 hp engines to semi’s tractors and off road equipment. I think it is somewhat comparable duty wise to the old formulation of Rotella before it was changed and Dello 15w40. I don’t generally run a ZDDP additive. Below is the test for it, I have ran it for years. It doesn’t test as well as the Brad Penn or Amsoil. But I have probably 30 engines with flat tappet cams running with it. Some have hundreds of thousands of miles. Occasionally we step up and used something more expensive, such as the Brad Penn or amsoil z-rod. On my hydrualic rollers that are older engines I like the Valvoline VR 10W-30. Mostly because it is lower on ZDDP and higher on some anti wear minerals than other oils, I like the VR’s detergent package for HR’s.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Yeah I posted a link a long time ago with a listing of maybe the top 20 oil brands and their contents. Most of that falls on deaf ears anyway as people will just buy what they want to buy. Then of course a flat tappet cam failure pops up and the subject starts all over again.

The other problem is that content is always changing with manufactures, usually not for the better. They are always changing base stocks and additive packages, so you have to periodically check up on this stuff to stay up to speed.

I've been running Rotella or Delo (whichever I happen to get) in my old GTO's since 2002 with zero issues. And lots of miles. YMMV. No $8 per quart stuff for me.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

I've been running Rotella or Delo (whichever I happen to get) in my old GTO's since 2002 with zero issues. And lots of miles. YMMV. No $8 per quart stuff for me.

Well, until it doesn't LOL

Do you daily drive them?

[tjs72lemans]

Two years ago when the engine builder put Brad Penn in and broke the motor in, he eventually changed the filter and oil with new and I was on my way. I put 500 miles on and went to him for new oil and he said he no longer uses that anymore. He went to Driven. Not sure why. If he felt Driven is better or what, not sure.

[michaelfind]

Originally Posted by tjs72lemans

Two years ago when the engine builder put Brad Penn in and broke the motor in, he eventually changed the filter and oil with new and I was on my way. I put 500 miles on and went to him for new oil and he said he no longer uses that anymore. He went to Driven. Not sure why. If he felt Driven is better or what, not sure.

I was under the impression that Driven is just the new (rebranded) name for Brad Penn. I could be wrong, but I think I read that "somewhere."

[Formulajones]

Brad Penn is the green oil. I think it's now called Penn Grade but still the green stuff. Good oil. I've used it and it's recommended by a few engine builders that I respect.

Driven I believe is different. That's the oil I believe that Joe Gibbs has something to do with. I haven't yet used that one so no oil analysis on it but everything I've read looks like a great oil too.