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#1
12-24-2003, 10:52 PM
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Forum Members,
Looking for a new set of 72cc heads for my pontiac as a christmas present for myself. Where's the best source. Thanks, Larry Metzger Columbus, NJ 1968 GTO Verdoro Green Hardtop 1969 Palladium Silver Hardtop
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Larry Metzger Columbus, NJ 1968 GTO Verdoro Green Hardtop 1969 GTO Palladium Silver Hardtop 1969 Judge Carousel Red Hardtop X 2 Someday We'll Look Back On This And It Will All Seem Funny. From Rosilitia, Sung By Bruce Springsteen, CIRCA 1973 |
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#2
12-26-2003, 03:38 AM
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Bill i think that Edelbrock sets up the 72 head with a longer valve than the 87 head. I will check it out after work today unless someone else kicks in with the info. Thanks.
Robert Williams
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"Three may keep a secret, if two are dead" ~ Benjamin Franklin ~ |
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#3
12-26-2003, 01:44 PM
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Steve is correct, the valves i removed from my 87 E-heads are the shorter ones.
Robert Williams
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"Three may keep a secret, if two are dead" ~ Benjamin Franklin ~ |
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#4
12-24-2003, 10:52 PM
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Forum Members,
Looking for a new set of 72cc heads for my pontiac as a christmas present for myself. Where's the best source. Thanks, Larry Metzger Columbus, NJ 1968 GTO Verdoro Green Hardtop 1969 Palladium Silver Hardtop
__________________
Larry Metzger Columbus, NJ 1968 GTO Verdoro Green Hardtop 1969 GTO Palladium Silver Hardtop 1969 Judge Carousel Red Hardtop X 2 Someday We'll Look Back On This And It Will All Seem Funny. From Rosilitia, Sung By Bruce Springsteen, CIRCA 1973 |
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#5
12-25-2003, 08:59 PM
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Thanks Robert Williams are the 72s and the 87 the same as far as the valves and spring? Thats what I was asking about whos the manuf. of these two parts. crower comp cam etc. Thanks Bill
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461 Stroker: 265/276 Comp Cam Solid roller . 340CFM E-Head Victor Intake 1050 Dom Carb. 390/430 9" Gears with a T400 trans 4200 converter. Street weight 3850. 1.49 60ft. 275/60/15 M/T DR 10.57 SO FAR |
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#6
12-26-2003, 09:18 AM
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(sorry, double post)
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) Best time 5.13 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
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#7
12-25-2003, 09:03 AM
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If you get the heads right out of the box who makes the springs what type and how about the valves? Thanks Bill
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461 Stroker: 265/276 Comp Cam Solid roller . 340CFM E-Head Victor Intake 1050 Dom Carb. 390/430 9" Gears with a T400 trans 4200 converter. Street weight 3850. 1.49 60ft. 275/60/15 M/T DR 10.57 SO FAR |
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#8
12-25-2003, 03:30 AM
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what Tim said, i purchased my 87 cc E-heads compleat. The engine we are building now will have a mech roller cam so we changed everything in the heads except the guideplates.
Robert Williams
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"Three may keep a secret, if two are dead" ~ Benjamin Franklin ~ |
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#9
12-25-2003, 05:04 PM
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Bill, what valves and springs are you looking for? I have all the valves, springs, retainers and locks that Edelbrock had installed in my 87 cc heads part #6057. These parts are all new and never run, will sell all for $75.00.
Robert Williams
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"Three may keep a secret, if two are dead" ~ Benjamin Franklin ~ |
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#10
12-28-2003, 11:11 PM
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Check out the EHeads I got on my site. They had slag left...hell basically all over. Was able to break it off with my fingers. After much dremel action they look ok...contacted em they said oh sorry bout that! Even sent em the evidence pictures... HAH! Also look around where they cut the spark plug hole. Filings there as well.
Basically they ARE NOT BOLT ON as it is advertised... Good luck! http://www.visualmktg.biz/transam78/
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http://www.christransam78.com/ |
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#11
12-26-2003, 09:19 AM
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The 87cc head from Edelbrock use 5.093" intake & 5.110" exhaust valves and the 72cc head uses 5.213" intake & 5.230" exhaust. This was in Nov 1999, doubt if they have made changes.
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) Best time 5.13 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
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#12
12-26-2003, 05:03 AM
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I was told that the 87cc heads run a shorter valve as the seats are "sunken" somewhat in the chamber to increase the volume, hence how they get 87cc's out of a 72cc head.
Someone may wish to correct me if i'm wrong, but it is what I was told in a thread about a month ago. It seems very logical not to have 2 different castings, but to just machine it differently. Hope this helps
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'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120 '66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser |
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#13
12-26-2003, 01:53 PM
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One casting, Edelbrock varied chamber size the same way Pontiac did. They changed the chamber roof height, then used different length valves to maintain valve geometry and valve gear interchangeability.
(It is my understanding the tighter radii of the curving transition (the "short side radius") between the port floors and the valve seats on the 87cc head is why it flows less then the 72cc head)
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) Best time 5.13 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
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#14
12-25-2003, 08:26 AM
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Larry, KRE tested their new heads on a 400 engine with H beam rods and forged pistons. Last summer they tested a 400 with 72cc 2.11/1.77 valve iron heads and Crower's 60916 cam, it made 419hp/453tq. The same combo with their new heads made 440hp/465tq. They did an additional test with the 60919 cam and made an additional 10hp. 440 to 450hp from a very "basic" 400 engine are great numbers. They engine also had very good overall power numbers, wide power band while maintaining very good idle quality. I have no idea on the pricing of the new heads?
I just finished the 455 test engine, waiting on KRE to get the 85cc heads ready and we'll be doing some dyno testing with various cams/intakes/carbs. Will post all the results.....Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#15
12-25-2003, 07:32 AM
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Thanks to those who replied.
The stock complete head is what I'm looking for. Any Idea on price regarding the KRE Heads? How about performance vs Edelbrock? OPG gave me a price a few days ago about $50 above catalog pricing and no discount as given on most of there advertised items. Plus there out of stock! Summit is backordered to the first of the year. Is there any other place to try other than summit for better pricing. I can wait a month if necessary. Larry Larry Metzger Columbus, NJ 1968 GTO Verdoro Green Hardtop 1969 Palladium Silver Hardtop
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Larry Metzger Columbus, NJ 1968 GTO Verdoro Green Hardtop 1969 GTO Palladium Silver Hardtop 1969 Judge Carousel Red Hardtop X 2 Someday We'll Look Back On This And It Will All Seem Funny. From Rosilitia, Sung By Bruce Springsteen, CIRCA 1973 |
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#16
12-26-2003, 12:43 PM
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Actually krisr, I would think it would be cheaper to have two molds and cast them separately,than it would be to machine each head to the right specs.
The chamber I think is 'deeper' not the seats.The chamber would be closer to the vavle spring seats.Therefore the top of the valves would need to be shorter to match what the valves in the 72 cc heads would be. johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com 
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! W.E.C moment "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#17
12-25-2003, 07:16 AM
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Larry, the out of the box E heads are good to over 500 hp on pretty "mild" 455 applications. Our test engine prepared here last summer made 505hp/551 tq with unported 87cc heads. If you are considering the 72 cc for a 400 street engine they will make over 400 hp with ease on pump fuel. I would consider using better springs, they are delivered with a pretty stiff single spring with dampner. If you are already using a "D" port head KRE is nearly finished with their new aluminum "D" port heads. I've been directly involved with the testing of these heads, they should be available in about 3-4 weeks......Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#18
12-25-2003, 01:58 AM
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The best answer to this questionis it depends. If you are looking for box stock E-Heads I have heard that Summit has the best price. Most of the Pontiac shops purchase bare heads and select their own components, valve springs etc. Going this route you can get higher quality components selected specific for your combination. Also if you wanted a special valve job or some port work to improve air flow and power potential you have options going this route. If you are interested in having your heads tailored to your specific need I highly recommend contacting Dave at S&D Performance. There are other quality Pontiac Performance shops that could provide the same services also.
Tim C 65 LeMans, 3550lb. D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 10.90@121
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Tim Corcoran |
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#19
12-25-2003, 04:25 PM
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Check your local Advance Auto, should price at about $50 each over catalog. Plus state tax
 . You may be able to have them in two days.  Just depends on how much of a hurry your in.Dan Remember when sex was safe and Hot Rods were dangerous? The DotRod rides again. 
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He's not the sharpest tool in the shed but he is a real tool. 
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#20
12-25-2003, 07:40 AM
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Give me a call next week i work at Summit.800-517-1035 ext 6225. The priceing on the E-heads is pretty much set in stone everyone sells them for the same price.
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