[steve68bird]

I have a 68 bird that I am planning to put a 455 Pontiac engine in. Several people that I have talked to suggest going with a Chevy engine. They say that a Pontiac engine will not hold up as long as a Chevy and cost twice as much to build. I would like to stay with the Pontiac, but I don't want to drop alot of money into it if it isn't going to last. Any info? I have a Pontiac 350 and 455, they say sell both & buy Chevy. I don't know!

[80TA]

I had a 77 bandit in 78 with a 400 of course and have had several 400s since.I never did have a 455.Would have liked to.I have also had lots of small block chevies and one big block supercharged one.No complaints there either.

I have a 400 pontiac in my current 80 but I am still putting in a 454 that I have picked up for cheap.Its a 95 engine and has factory 4 bolt mains ,one piece oil pan seal.Besides the fact that I have already some big block parts to install on it I have one main reason for going to it.
The 455 and 400 pontiacs don't look intimidating .The valve covers like the mopar 440s and 383 are too darn small.The two meanest most intimidating engines out there are the old hemi and the big block chev.Now I am not arguing that the pontiacs can't be made to run as good or better than my 454.But sorry they just don't look as mean.
Its a kinda stupid reason maybe but its my main reason.The the small block chevy don't look like much of a motor either but it has the advantage of tons and tons of pretty cheap new and used parts avialability for it.And my ls1 and lt1 cars go pretty darn good.
And guys pontiac hasn't been making pontiac engines since 82 so whats the big deal?

80TAWS6,400,edelbrock carb,accel wires,dual exhaust,dynomax mufflers,3.42 strange gears,turbo 400,B&M converter/shift kit/etc., polygraphite everywhere,draglites.
14.24 at 97.40mph 2.21 60ft tazzo vpc.
1900 ft altitude.
99TAWS6 ..lots of mods.13.35 at 109 2.27 60ft tazzo vpc.
96 Z28 camaro vert,14.66 at 98.3 with 2.47 60ft

[Txbobcat]

If you put a Chevy motor in a Pontiac you will DEVALUE the car by many more dollars than you can save on an engine even if they gave you the engine. The Chevy guys wont like you and the Pontiac guys will look down on you like you married your sister.

[bmpmdf]

baer454, Explain the 2 times the cost to me for building a Pontiac over the cost of a chevy. Where did you get that? Cam and Valvetrain parts should be the same cost as the companies sell them for the same price to warehouses, stores, etc., pistons may be more, but not more than 100 bucks, the intake will be more if you buy it new compared to sbc, but not when compared to bbc. Headers are not much more than a sbc, while a bbc and the rest is a wash regardless of engine brand.

Have A Great Day

[KandRGTO]

Keep it Poncho powered you will never regret it!I have built all brands of motors,each different and special in their own ways!When built correctly they all last as long as you live within the boundaries of their capabilities.My 302 Chevy motor has to be heard to be believed,not many "stock"motors can be shifted at such high rpm's !Yet my 400 in my goat just pulls HARD right off idle,has 110,000 plus miles and oil comes out like brand new!Build it right,change the oil every 3000 miles and you've got a winner!

1967 GTO resto intensifies as a plan comes together...... Life is short;dance naked and wiggle your butt!

[shark landis]

We love guys that build Ponchos with Chevy power. The previous owner of our '64 goat had it tubbed and caged, back-halfed with a 9" and ladder bars, then sold it to us cheap when his "big block" took a dump. Tried to tell him...bowties are for sissies! Anyway, we're back with Pure Pontiac motivation now. Gas it up, run the number, park it 'til next race day and do it again. Parts are getting much more readily available, but even the Chevy guys pay for the good parts, I don't care what they tell you. I can buy Eagle cranks for less than it used to cost for my machine work, E-heads still cheaper than RA IV's and Eagle rods cheaper and stronger than old SD units. I'll stick to my guns, thank you. Haven't had to use anything but Pontiac parts yet, except for the Eagle rods, cheap insurance. I tease my Chevy buddies when they go to buy screw-in studs, guide plates, windage trays and oil deflectors. I just ask them what happened to the ones that came on the car and they give me that puzzled look. I just grin.

[sdbob]

Steve just remember like some of the others have said Pontiacs do not reach the rpm's of a chevy. They make torque tune for it. If the engine doesn't perform the way you want it come back here we'll help. That torque when harnessed is one ride none of the other makes have stock. I think its not the engine that is disliked I think it is the persons who have razed us that run those makes, and we associate the make. I don't care for'mopars'. Because I was rubbed that Pontiacs don't run.

[WDCreech]

I run a TH350 in my. race only, '64 goat (9.07@144, 2600#), only 9 passes as yet, but so far so good. My son built the tranny and used some upgrades. Probably the most important was the TCI intermediate (modified TH400) sprag. In stock form, the 350 would be ok for regular street driving but wouldn't last under hard use behind a 455. I have a turbo-input glide as back-up, just in case.

Bill

[Nicks67]

Well TA454 gotta correct you...a 350 .030 over is 355, a 350 .040 over is 358. Anyways, why do you guys kill on chevy? Have you ever felt a SB sing at 8000 rpm through 5 gears? I have and i might go do it on the highway here in a few minutes just cause i can. Dont hate on the SBC, its the most diverse and popular motor for a reason. Now i grew up on pontiacs and currently am building one for my Dad but why the Chevy hate? Are you jealous? Now for my input....Leave the Chevy motor out of the firebird, there is nothing more dissappointing than going over to a hard running poncho at the track and seeing that same bigblock chevy in it, i see that and walk away, its horrible. I respect the fact that you guys build ponchos to run and not just to show cause thats there reputation....show only. So keep it up but dont hate on the SBC

I bet im the only 21 year old whose had HIS OWN subscription to "Hot Rod" for over a decade

[Big Mike]

If you are into challenges, building a fast Pontiac takes a little thought and effort. When you are done, you will be proud of your results, enjoy the torque and drivability of the Pontiac and know that your Pontiac automobile is filled with the soul and heart of the correct brand of engine. Look in all the car magazines, Chevy, Chevy, Chevy.... Where is the challenge? Everybody's got one. If you cannot make a fast Chevy, you've got no business trying to build and engine. I got ribbed about my Pontiac engines all through high school from my Chevy buddies. End the end, I could run with the best of them. As stated in the earlier posts, engine parts cost nearly the same. What makes any engine buildup expensive is the wrong choice of parts. Too much cam, too big a carb, ect.
Read the posts from the engine builders in this forum and you will learn all you need to know about building a fast Pontiac!

Big block? Small Block? Nope, It's a Pontiac Engine!

[WDCreech]

Somebody is trying to fill you full of sh!t. A Pontiac will last as long as a Chevy as long as you don't try to drive it like a chevy. Pontiacs make torque. Don't need to wing them like a chevy. It may be easier to find the parts you need for a chevy than a Pontiac but the Pontiac parts are out there. As far as money...Some years ago I built (on paper) a BBC, an Oldsmobile 455, and a Pontiac 455 with comparable parts. The Chevy was about $300 more than the Pontiac' and the Olds only about $100 more. My brother had a tube chassis '56 chevy with an alcohol injected BBC and a powerglide w/t-brake and 4.86 gear, that I drove a few times. The best I ran was a 9.175@142. My '64 tube chassis GTO, with a TH350 w/brake, 4.11 gears, naturally aspirated on racing gas, has run [email protected] on it's ninth pass. That was without any tuning of the engine. My son told me that at 200ft my front tires hadn't touched the pavement yet. That is the torgue of a Pontiac with a wide power band.

Bill

[This message was edited by WDCreech on July 20, 2003 at 01:52 AM.]

[baer454]

i am a chevy man at heart but i had pontiac for over twenty years my latest project is 74gto im thinking chevy for the cost factor i bought a 400 pontiac to rebuild and its still apart then i bought a roller chevy motor which i can build for less than 1/2 the price sorry guys im going chevy

[bmpmdf]

You want to know how to make more money on those late night money runs? Use a Pontiac engine. Show up with a bbc or bbf or bbm, and no one but the high dollar 2+stages of nos guys want to race you. Show up with a Pontiac engine, use painted valve covers, (works even when you stacked two to make a tall valve cover), start collecting the bucks by beating the smarta$$$ chevy boys. Not that I know about that recently, but I claim the Fifth on some younger years.

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by badass76ta:
so yeah what motor can make that with only 350 cubic inches.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How bout ANY NASCAR motor . You dont follow the NHRA Drag Races do you? Cause if you did you would also know that The Pro Stock trucks were limited to only 358 cid. For those of you not very mechanically inclined that comes out to be a 350 with a .03 over bore. There is also a guy running a small block in Top Alcahol Dragster granted he is running on nitro due to the fact that he is Naturally Asperated.Prehaps you should take some time to walk around the Comp Eliminator pits at a National or divisional event to see what some of those guys are squeezing out of a V6. So therefore my question is why ONLY 672 HP out of a 350.

[krisr]

Don't know how it works over there, but over here in Australia, last year my dad and myself had our motors rebuilt. Dads was an SBC350, mine was a 389. Our rebuilds were pretty much identical work wise except I had already had my pistons/bores done, bearings, cam and 1.5 gasket kits (had 1/2 a set left over from an old 455 build + beyond)

Dad's motor needed EVERYTHING, rebore, rings, bearings, springs, gasket kit, vales.. the lot..

Dad spent $2000 to get his finished, home, running. Remember its a stock motor +0.035 with a mild cam, nothing else.

I spent $2000 to get just the short block done! Where I did stuff up was trying to find rings for a 389 +0.040 in this country!, I should have had the bores machined the extra few thou and gone a std 400 bore and bought new pistons & rings. Dare say it would have worked out the same price!. Anyhow after I had the heads cleaned up, new springs, new valves, each seat has been replaced with a hardened insert as they have been pounded to nothing (1966 heads), my bill came to $1200 for the heads. $3200 all up for my engine before I spent any extras on valve covers etc.. This is for a stock 389 +0.040 with a similar grind cam to a RA3.

Honestly the 389 smokes his into the ground, but when the topic is dollar for dollar rebuilds in my opinion a chev is cheaper due to the scale of parts out there for the Brand-X market. Standard performance wise, ofcourse the characteristics of the Pontiac motor will eat chevs for breakfast (remember I said standard). But to do the things I would like to do, fuel injection & turbocharging, it leaves me thinking as I can do it with a chev for half the price as everything is just there for it! Especially a crate all alloy LS1 or something along those lines....

Its an interesting topic, but yeah thats my 0.02c on it

[stephen]

Drive a Car with a chevy motor, then drive one with a True pontiac motor. After that you will know what to do. Pontiac's don't require the high RPM'S to produce seat grabing power that you will want in your bird.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

im not against chevy motors. what i am against is whatatever GM said didnt apply to chevy. just think what would happen if gm didnt can the sd. someone on here has a homepage that explains what gm did in the 60's to pontiac. seems like chevy got away with what they wanted to and if they couldnt top pontiac then gm canned it.

just because im 21 that dont mean i have to like imports

[77TA]

I was told the exact same thing many years ago and agian just last year at the track by a bracket racer with a 69 GTO with a 350 Chevy under the hood. Hold up better and run faster he said. SO happened we got lined up in time trials. I can't say for sure on the hold up better but that 69 GTO sure looked Nice in the REarview Mirror as I went down the track. He came over later to see what was under the hood. he saw a completely stock looking Pontiac engine. He just walked away shaking his head.

1977 TA SE y82 I think. T-tops Black on black best ET [email protected] on DR's

[steve68bird]

Thanks for the info guys! I kind of thought they might be blowing smoke about the Pontiac motors. Two of the guys are Chevy racers so that probly explains their suggestions. I have got my 455 torn down getting ready to send to machine shop and start ordering parts, does any one have any suggestions on what to put in it to make it streetable but also quick at the local track from time to time? The car will mostly be a cruiser, butu I want it to be a quick cruiser. The engine is completely stock, and I also have a Pontiac 350 that I have been told to use the heads off of, they are 6x. I also have a 350 tranny, will this be strong enough for the 455? Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks again for the posts!

[bmpmdf]

SDBOB, remember mopar stands for Move Over Pontiac Approaching Rapidly !!!