[69gtocv]

Ok, I've replaced just about everything there is to replace on my system. The problem is now the drivers side door won't close past about 1/3 way up. They both go down fine and the passenger one comes up fine. I thought it was the switch so I replaced that.. same thing. I took a vacuum gauge to the tee where it comes from the engine and then inside to the switch. When the headlights are open, I get 16" on the gauge. When I shut the switch off, the vacuum only reads 10" which apparently is not enough to shut both doors. I have bypassed everything and went from engine source directly to the actuators and both open/close just fine. The only things I haven't replaced are the hoses that go from the firewall to the actuators. They looked fine, I find it hard to believe they are leaking. Do you think I have a bad new headlight switch? I've read where someone had 2 new ones leak on him. Thanks for any help, Jeff
ps. when I had the gauge on the tee, it required removing the hose to the reserve tank, so if it were leaking, it wouldn't have shown up on that test

[Red Box Rebel]

1. If the passanger side door is coming up ok, the problem may lie in the other mechanical parts at the door itself. Are the door and spring adjusted correctly?

2. Can you manually pump vacuum at the door and make it come up all the way to closed position?

3. The vacuum line connectors between the doors may not be connected correctly.

4. If one door is closing all the way, I have to believe that the vacuum lines from the switch and the coffee can are sound. The problem should be found very near the door itself. Mostly trial and error, but start at the door that is not closing.

[69gtocv]

As far as I can tell, I have the door/spring adjusted correctly. Once you get the door up past half way, the spring brings it up the rest of the way. And I advised in my original post, when I take a vacuum line from an engine source and go directly to the port on the drivers actuator, it functions just fine. I have double checked that the connections are correct. I just can't figure out the vacuum difference between when open and when closed. Also, I did mis-state in my original post... the passenger door comes up, but verrry slowly, it just does eventually, the drivers only 1/2 way up.

[gto4evr]

put a gauge and vac pump to just the actuator (tee a gauge and the pump to the actuator outlet) Pump it and watch the gauge to make sure it's not leaking down while holding your finger over the inlet. check both actuators seperately and on both sides of the diaphram (up and down), you probably have a slow leak down that the stronger of the two springs (they're never the same) is losing the battle on. when they're connected, if one has a problem, the whole system suffers for it. I got caught on these after putting "good" ones into the car, went down fine but wouldn't come up. Doing the finger test (plugging the outlet hole while pushing on the rod) isn't good enough.

Good Luck,
Dennis

[69gtocv]

Ok, I don't have a vacuum pump. From what I'm hearing, no one thinks it's the switch because is seems to work the opening of them correctly?

[Red Box Rebel]

1. Ok, I want ro revise my earlier post. I assumed that the passanger side came up normally.

2. Sounds to me that you are not getting enough vacuum to the actuators. You need a vacuum gauge and a vacuum pump. You can get the pump at Autozone for under $30.

3. Check the integrity of the coffee can and all the lines to and from the switch. The switch should also be checked to make sure that it is allowing the full amount of vacuum to the correct circuit as it opens and/or lowers the doors.

4. However, before I ran myself ragged checking each inch of line, I would make sure there is enough vacuum coming from the intake first. Then check the amount of vacuum at each major component including the switch all the way to the actuators.

5. A leak anywhere in the system can cause insufficient vacuum to lift the door shut.

[gto4evr]

"Ok, I don't have a vacuum pump. From what I'm hearing, no one thinks it's the switch because is seems to work the opening of them correctly?"

Jeff,

not necessarily, the switch basically shunts vacuum 1 direction or the other. If it's leaking in the up position it can have the same affect as a leaking actuator. You could have a slow leak actuator that works good enough with full vacuum, but when coupled with a slow leak switch just doesn't have the umphff to close. The slowly closing door that is closing still tells me it's a leak problem. Okay, Actuator test without a pump or gauge:

Unplug the vac lines off both sides of the actuators and close both doors so the grilles are up and the headlights hidden. take a vac line off the manifold and run it directly to the actuator's top line tap. Plug off the line tap on the bottom of the actuator (use rubber caps or a piece of vac line with a golf tee, screw, etc). Fire up the motor if the actuator is tight and not leaking the arm should NOT move (the actuator needs to pull air in one side while it's getting the other side sucked out) This will prove out that the actuators work good for the closing position. Now pull the lines and plugs and open the doors so the grilles are down and the headlights are exposed. Now reverse the vac line to the bottom line tap of the actuators and plug the top holes, repeat the test. If the arm doesn't move in either test, it's a good actuator. If it moves during one test, and not in the other, the hole is in the housing on the side of the actuator it DIDN'T move during the test.

If you've got a vac gauge, T it into the vac line before the actuator and put a one-way vac valve between the engine and the gauge. fire up the motor to get vacuum then shut it down, if it's a slow leak you'll see the gauge lose the vac -- better way to be sure than the non-gauge test.

To test the switch with your gauge, connect the engine vac line directly to the switch (bypass the t going to the can) and then connect the gauge to each line seperately going to up and down positions. You should have same reading each way. if it's lower on the closed side, then your headlight switch is leaking.

Wow, was that long winded....good luck and let me know what happens!

[69gtocv]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

"To test the switch with your gauge, connect the engine vac line directly to the switch (bypass the t going to the can) and then connect the gauge to each line seperately going to up and down positions. You should have same reading each way. if it's lower on the closed side, then your headlight switch is leaking.

Wow, was that long winded....good luck and let me know what happens!

I think that is basically what I did in my test isn't it? I took off the line going to the can from the tee and put my vacuum gauge there instead. With the headlight switch open and the engine running, I was seeing 16" of vacuum on the gauge (vacuum coming from engine to switch and routed out the open side of the switch with the gauge in the middle reading the vacuum). When I shut the headlight switch off (vacuum now coming from engine to switch routed out the closed side of the switch), it only read 10". Now, I suppose I could try taking the gauge with a tee between the hoses going to the actuators after the switch and try the same test as you suggested , but wouldn't it be the same results?? Like you said, if it were a bad actuator, I would think the other one would be fine, but with the passenger one working but slow, it does sound like a leak on the closed side. I will try again with the other tests, but probably won't be til this weekend. Thanks for both of your help

[gto4evr]

Jeff, yes, but you need to isolate the actuators from the switch. With your gauge in place of the can, you still can't see where the leak is that's causing 10". Plug the T to the can and pull the feed lines off the T's between the actuators then put your gauge into each of them -- That will isolate the switch and prove out if it's the cause of the 6" drop in your reading. if it's still 10" on the "close" hose and 16" on the "open" hose, then it's your switch. if they're both reading 16" then it's one or both of your actuators. I really doubt it's a line itself, but run a new hose to the switch from your gauge to be sure.

[69gtocv]

Gotcha.. will do and I'll post when I can get to it.

[69gtocv]

Well, finally got around to troubleshooting this further. I have narrowed it down to the drivers side actuator on the close side. When I isolate it away from the rest of the system, everything else works, passenger side up/down and the drivers side goes down. When I plug the close side back in, vacuum at the reading goes down to like 11-12" and neither side will close. Now, is there two diaphrams inside those? One for open and one for close, or does it just work off either side of one. What about the rod seal? Anything I can try before pulling it out and sending it back for another new one? Thanks, Jeff

[gto4evr]

Just one and it works off either side. Rod seal is usually where it leaks. first pop off the bottom of the seal and make sure the metal is actually still there on the top of the can. Then roll the rubber boot up off the rod and see if there's rust build up in the groove. Clean it and silicone it when you reinstall. I also put a small 4" zip tie around the boot to squeeze the boot around the groove in the rod. The rubber on mine wasn't as tight as it was 40 yrs ago. It's much easier to take the actuator off and do all this on your kitchen table. I've had cans that leaked up under the mounting plate that's welded to the top (fixable there by siliconing the entire bottom of the mounting plate) when you have it off and the rod boot off too, flip it upside down and work the actuator up and down to get any rust dust out of it.

[north]

The actuator has a single center diaphram, if the lower side is not leaking then the diaphram is good. If the problem is only going up it is the rod seal. The repro rod seals are thinner than the originals and tend to seat poorly on the actuator, weatherstrip glue can improve the seal and prevent them from detaching (which can happen with those repro seals). On the rod side if it is an original actuator make sure there is no rust on the rod and then weatherstrip glue the seal at the proper point on the rod (where the grove is)

[69gtocv]

Ok, these are brand new actuators, but I've heard they've had problems leaking. I did buy some new rod seals for my old actuators before I decided to just bite the bullet and buy the new actuators, so I will try replacing the rod seal on the drivers actuator. Is there a trick to getting the new overload spring off while still attached in the car while reaching down between the nose and core support? hahaha Thanks guys, Jeff

[gto4evr]

okay, here's the trick, take off the left grille (and the only way to get it out for me was to take off the inboard lower mounting bracket, loosen the outboard bracket) then go through hole.

[69gtocv]

I can get my hands down to the actuator from the top.. but trying to figure out how to stretch the spring to get it off is the trick. I was hoping not to take the grille off, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm reeeeaaally hoping this rod seal is going to be the fix this time.

[gto4evr]

take a coat hanger or some stiff wire, make a hook, loop it around the spring outside of where it goes through the hole in the bracket. Twist the other end around a screwdriver to make a "T", pull up to extend the spring and pop it out of the hole.

[69gtocv]

That could work, I'll give it a shot.. maybe this weekend

[69gtocv]

Ok, got the actuator out from the top easy enough. Took the dust boot off and could see the rod seal was out of the groove. See the attached picture... I assume the lower lip of the rod seal is to be in the groove below it. North, I would want to glue the lip into the seal then to keep it from coming out of there again? gto4evr, I'm not sure what part you are putting a zip tie on?? Thanks guys, Jeff

[robz]

On my conv, I have the same problem (as mentioned this is common with the repops)...What gto4evr said is to put the tie rap around the seal (once it is over the groove on rod) precisely at that place (over the grove) to hold it down firmly..Mine only comes a few times a year but I still may use the tie rap method to secure it in place so I do not have to do this anymore (as it does come off at the worst times (parked at a car show at night..:-))