Tell Bob Lutz what you think of the GTO

[salokin]

Since all the bitching in this forum about the GTO does nothing, why not tell Bob Lutz how you feel about it?

Go to his Blog

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/

[HUMBLER]

I told him and they posted it...

[nikivee1954]

OC Crusin. Do some research.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Uhhh, the context of my post was how could anybody claim to have known me if I was never there, not if such a place actually existed or not as you erroneously assumed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What the heck are you talking about? What context? You made the statement that the OC cruise was just BS. Mr. Hall never claimed that you were there, he made the statement that others who attended the show say you are a troll, which in fact you are.

Learn how to comprehend what you read.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steve kepecs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is the heart of the dispute between new GTO supporters and bashers on this forum: The bashers don't want it called a "Pontiac GTO". Somehow it is "unworthy" in their opinion. Nevertheless, I have yet to read one valid reason why it is unworthy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I NEVER said the new GTO is unworthy of it's name. I own one and I call it GTO all the time!Proudly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto. Or maybe I should say: "Me two". Was just disagreeing about it making a difference what it's called.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Randy W:
If all you see is the nose... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The back end is worse...looks like a bloated Cavalier...looks much better w/o the spoiler. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your ignorance knows no bounds. Here are the facts:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Yor denial knows no bounds. Here are the facts:

"1) The closest vehicles in styling to the GTO rear are produced by BMW...."

&gt;&gt;&gt; "The GTO appears to have the same styling of GMs lower level cars such as the GrandAm or Cavalier." JD Powers : Is GTO flat sales the result of Bland Styling?" Uhhh, yeah, lots of people mistake a GM Monaro for a 2004/ 2005 740i.

" 2) The '04 GTO has the LS1 and the '05 has the LS2. I believe these engines may also be found in the C5 and C6 vettes, respectively."

&gt;&gt;&gt; Where in any post did I say the LS1 or LS2 was an exsclusively Chevy engine? I have said many times the LS1 is a superior powerplant to anything Pontiac ever produced.

Keep trying.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by humbler:
The sound and performance, exactly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I guess the GM Monaro is the only car that runs in the 13's or has the sound of a V8. So why bother with giving it a distinctive GTO look and stance.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, guess DeLorean had a bad idea. It was wrong to re-badge this car... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a Pontiac Jonny Boy rebadged right? Nothing wrong with rebadging a Pontiac as a Pontiac and then stuffing a bad ass Pontiac motor in it. Too bad the same couldn't be said for the 04. The old tired argument of what happened 40 years ago as a valid comparison just doesn't wash. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Well, the Tempest pictured was a four door. Today, Pontiac has taken a world-class car (namely the TWO DOOR Monaro) and re-badged it as a GTO. I agree, it wouldn't have washed to take a '04 Grand AM or GP and badge it as a GTO, even with a big V8 (considering FWD, etc.). As you implied, the world has changed in the last 40 years and what Pontiac did in introducing the new GTO makes more sense today.

[Mr_GTO]

It really is too easy. Thank god you don't represent me councilor.

Where did you get your degree in Law from? CrackerJack U? LOL

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

i forgot that the new GTO's are imports. so i guess youd be comparing import to import. since when was a pontiac a import and not a domestic ?

[nikivee1954]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Hall:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
I just found out red70goat has no goat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Prove it. Of course if you've got a 2004 / 2005 GM Monaro neither do you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's up to you to prove that you have one. Which in fact you haven't done yet.

Appeasing the peanut gallery is not high on my priority list

I heard quite a few times down at Cruisin' O.C...
Wrong state pal...never heard of O.C. You're obviously making that up. Whos' the fraud now?

As for your jibe at Nick towards his '04, according to the VIN it's a GTO.

Slapping a GTO badge on a Monaro doesn't make it a GTO anymore than slapping a Charger emblem on a 4 cylinder Mitsubishi with hemisperical heads make it a hemi Charger.

One last thing, may I refer you to my post from earlier this month that may explain to you about the "Traditional GTO buyer"

I'm glad you think you know what one is. Lutz certainly doesn't and admitted so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OC Crusin. Do some research.

Ocean City, MD..

http://www.atlanticbreezes.com/cruisinoceancity.htm

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
Based on? That's stretching the facts a little wouldn't you say? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only facts I represent are that in 2002 Holden put the LS1 in a low-rider, hot rod pick-up that could do 160 MPH. Chevy finally put the LS2 in the SSR this year, at the same time that Holden put the LS2 in the Maloo. The idea to make a really fast, hot rod pick-up straight from the factory was Holden's. Chevy just did it better (at least looks better on the outside, I like Holden's interior a little better...and I have driven neither so I don't know about performance). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


One is car based, the other is truck based. They are not the same even in concept. One is car with a bed the other is a truck(trailblazer) that is a convertible with a bed.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i know ive been bashing this car for a while now. im not gonna deny that. but i will admit it is starting to look better. a HUGE improvemnt over the 04. so theyre in the right direction. as long as it out performs the mustang itll be ok. which it does. the mustang looks a lot better then the new gto ( as long as youre not looking at the rear end of the mustang )but hopefully in another year or 2 it will be a diffrent story. but it still looks like a grand am. ill accept the fact that its a chevy motor in a australlian body as much as i dont like it but hey the bright side is that itll still take a mustang with no problems. thats why youll pay $10,000+ more but speed costs money how fast do you wanna go ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


A fully LOADED GT goes for almost $29K, a GTO at invoice is $30K. Where are you getting $10K more from?

It ISN'T A CHEVY MOTOR. Get that fact through your Skull. Pontiac has ZERO motors since 1981.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

you never did say how your project is comming along ?

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:


"You can send me to all these sites"
&gt;&gt;&gt; Obviously I can't. I should have known better than to have you actually look up something given your history of asking people to find things for you.

" but if you actually had links from people in the KNOW instead of people's OPINIONS, you would have already posted them to back up your arguments."

&gt;&gt;&gt; How many 2007s have been produced again? Who can verify this? You? LOL.

"I posted my links. You haven't."
&gt;&gt;&gt; What link? From 2003???

"You loose."
&gt;&gt;&gt; Learn to spell looser, or is that loser? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What's a matter Watza? Being a crybaby now (QUOTE]

Not at all. You're always good for a laugh.

[Crow_T_Robot]

Some drink from the fountain of knowledge, he only gargles.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by David Jones:
Thats a great article and very informative. Find a similar article on how the original design had evolved up to that point. Its been said that GM celebrating 50 years of the smallblock is a marketing tool. No more so than an engineer saying that they had a "clean sheet" of paper. "New and improved". Jeez, I would hope some improvements would take place.
How much interchanges between the early Pontiac V-8 and its last model, produced in 1978. Parts don't need to be directly interchangeable to have a direct ancestory.
I like the way you have allowed your self to become "the" authority on this issue. What GM thinks be damned......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a decent article on it, not 100% accurate but pretty damn close </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me some CAPS and type FACT a few more times. Maybe I'll buy in soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The problem with your hypothesis is that BACK THEN each division had it's OWN engineering group. That isn't the case any more. There is no CHEVY, there is PONTIAC engines.

There is GM POWERTRAIN and that has been around since the early 90's.

Other than that PRESS RELEASE you keep citing, there is not one place that I have found on GM's Website where they call the LS1 a CHEVY.

[red70goat]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
the whole drifting thing in my opinion is a import thing. if i can do donuts/powerslides in (QUOTE]

drifting .... That ranks right up there as bungy jumping, ballroom dancing and curling as an Olympic "Sport"...... drifting

[David Jones]

Well you coose who you want and I'll choose GM.
Lets say I'm am engineer working on an engine project. Would I rather say I had been part of refurbing a 50 year old design. Or would it look better on my resume for me to strut around saying I had started with a "clean sheet" of paper. I'll just happen to keep the same bore spacing. And make it a 90 degree V-8. And keep them pushrods. And leave 2 valves in there. Lets just make it look like the original just because.

My "an" and your "the" are in fact the same person. There is no difference. I didn't say an electrical engineer. Or hydraulic engineer. Or nuclear etc. I was talking about the engineers that <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">actually designed the LS1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
Make sure you tell him in 1 syllable words and with pictures so he understands. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Works for you, right?

Just kidding! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good one, I figured I had something like that coming after I posted it...My dislike for Lutz was imbedded long before he got his grubby little hands on the 2004 GTO.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by David Jones:
No more so than an engineer saying that they had a "clean sheet" of paper. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say an engineer. I said the engineers who designed the LS1. There is a big difference. You choose to believe someone who may never have even met the people who designed it. I choose to believe the people who actually designed the LS1.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

me-so the cam i bought from comp makes my engine a chevy even if chevy never made a 428 ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chevy never made a 346 either, but that doesn't seem to stop you from thinking that they did.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also using JJEs logic, since the LS2 displaces 364 ci's, has two valves per cylinder and pushrods, I guess my '05 has a Buick engine in it. LOL!