[Jim Zeek]

As usual Maple Grove turns another Pontiac fan away for good! I know they could not control the weather for the original event date and can not hold that against them. Then they schedule the rain date to coincide with several other venues on the same day. Ok. We know it will be busy but we will be racing other Pontiacs on this day so we will bite the bullet. Then find out it will cost spectators an additional $5.00 fee because of the increased entry cost of the other venues. (I know its only $5.00, but how much would they lose for the few who paid and sat around for 4 hours in the rain on the original date?). Spend 1/2 the day saturday to finish cleaning the car and loading up before the torrential rains that are forcast come. Wake up at 4:00am to get ready to leave the house. Walk outside at 4:45 to a crisp, clear fall like morning for the 1 hr 15 minute drive to get in line by 6:00am for gates that won't open til 8:00am so you can get a good spot for the day. Not 1 single cloud in the sky, temps in the low 70's, most of your Pontiac friends in attendance talking about the great time that was had in Norwalk. Head down to tech which has not enough staff to cover the amount of cars in attendance. When you finally get teched you find out there is no Pontiac classes being run today at the Pontiac raindate! You will either run in Nostalgia 1 or 2, or in Mandra. What is nostalgic about my 92 Firebird? Payouts are $450.00 for any Chevy, Ford or other make who wins one of the classes. If a Pontiac wins they get $600.00. So the way I look at it is means that if a Pontiac is lucky to win the Pontiac event raindate you will win $150.00 for racing against Chevies and Fords etc. I wonder if Jim Butler knows he is sponsoring a race for $150.00 payout? If I wanted to race against Chevies and Fords I would have gone to Cecil County to try and win $2000.00! All this happened by 9:30am and I was loaded up and pulling out the gate by 10:30. I will never race at a non National or Divisional race at Maple Grove again. It is this kind of treatment that further fuels my desire to make the Pontiacs in the Park event the best Pontiac event east of Norwalk! This was the final nail. The coffin is now sealed!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Forget July. Let's make May and August the <span class="ev_code_RED">TWO </span> biggest and baddest Pontiac events one "MUST" attend.

I would rather put all the effort into 2 major events then 6 screwed up smallerones. LOL.
Pluis the price of gas and time away for most people.
How about a heads up open class like Jim Butler puts on at Norwalk. Think he might be interested in doing it at VMP too???

Jim, If ya want to set up a 2 or 3 car Match race for VMP, Let me know, if it will fit into the schedule.

Ray Challenged me to a $2,000 winner take all and your deal would be the best place to do it.

You too Lil' Jack. If ya want to be a playa, dog.
Besides, it would give Ray a chance/and time to try and find that HP and hook he seems to not know where it is. He's already spend 7 months since January lookin. LOL.

[nasty66gto]

I'll call Joe Sway and see if hee would setup a boxing ring at the track so you guy can be the under card match on the 12th

LET'S GET READY TO RUMMBLE!!!!!!!!



all bets
can be emailed to directly to me

[Jeff V]

TA454,
You going to Atco?I haven't made up my mind if I will make the trip,but if I do I'll be sure and look you up when I get there.

[Jim Zeek]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff V:
I didn't drive to the Grove twice just to protest and go home again with nothing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff: If you knew before you came back for the rainout that this is how the event was going to be run would you still have come up for it? I did not go to Maple Grove to protest anything. I went to race against Pontiacs. When I found out I would be running against anything that is when I left. I don't mind running against other makes or dragsters either. But when I do run against them it is for more than $600.00. How hard would it have been to run at least 2 Pontiac classes that day? It wouldn't have taken that much more time. And you basically are saying "I drove all this way so I might as well stay". I work hard for my money and don't feel like being stepped on when I spend it. As I said before, this is not a Pontiac only occurance. This happens at other venues too. The attitude there is if you don't like it go somewhere else. The old saying goes.... "if you don't like the way something is done, Do something about it" Well I am doing something about it....in Virginia!

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nasty66:
Yeah, we could have brian in a thong in between rounds!! LOL <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No thanks. The only thing that will ever ride up my crack is toilet paper. Besides, how'd Spotty and I get into this anyway?

[Jim Zeek]

As usual Maple Grove turns another Pontiac fan away for good! I know they could not control the weather for the original event date and can not hold that against them. Then they schedule the rain date to coincide with several other venues on the same day. Ok. We know it will be busy but we will be racing other Pontiacs on this day so we will bite the bullet. Then find out it will cost spectators an additional $5.00 fee because of the increased entry cost of the other venues. (I know its only $5.00, but how much would they lose for the few who paid and sat around for 4 hours in the rain on the original date?). Spend 1/2 the day saturday to finish cleaning the car and loading up before the torrential rains that are forcast come. Wake up at 4:00am to get ready to leave the house. Walk outside at 4:45 to a crisp, clear fall like morning for the 1 hr 15 minute drive to get in line by 6:00am for gates that won't open til 8:00am so you can get a good spot for the day. Not 1 single cloud in the sky, temps in the low 70's, most of your Pontiac friends in attendance talking about the great time that was had in Norwalk. Head down to tech which has not enough staff to cover the amount of cars in attendance. When you finally get teched you find out there is no Pontiac classes being run today at the Pontiac raindate! You will either run in Nostalgia 1 or 2, or in Mandra. What is nostalgic about my 92 Firebird? Payouts are $450.00 for any Chevy, Ford or other make who wins one of the classes. If a Pontiac wins they get $600.00. So the way I look at it is means that if a Pontiac is lucky to win the Pontiac event raindate you will win $150.00 for racing against Chevies and Fords etc. I wonder if Jim Butler knows he is sponsoring a race for $150.00 payout? If I wanted to race against Chevies and Fords I would have gone to Cecil County to try and win $2000.00! All this happened by 9:30am and I was loaded up and pulling out the gate by 10:30. I will never race at a non National or Divisional race at Maple Grove again. It is this kind of treatment that further fuels my desire to make the Pontiacs in the Park event the best Pontiac event east of Norwalk! This was the final nail. The coffin is now sealed!

[Jeff V]

Yes Jim,he has seen this thread.I'm not taking sides with anyone at this point.I really don't know why you packed up and left.Gaydosh ran in Nostalgia Bracket 1 with his 2000 Firebird.When I won the gamblers race at Va. it only paid $150 plus $100 for beating the modified guy.There were only 15 cars entered in the gamblers race but that is still 4 rounds plus 1,so for a 5 round race I won $250.I went 6 rounds and won $600 at the Grove race.It doesn't matter to me what brand of car was in the other lane at Maple Grove,I was happy to come out with some money and the win.If they had ran the Pontiacs separate at MG it would have only been a 4 round race as well.

[Brian Baker]

Because, like Keefer said..."Bitchin' but racin'".

Also, tracks nowadays make more money on T&T days than any other. Take Capitol for instance. They charge $20 per car for a Friday night T&T. On a packed night, they may get 500 cars. An average night, 250. Plus they have additional money coming in from concession sales. When there is no purse, no track prep, and the only overhead is the cost of electricity to run the place and the "minimum wage" paid to employees...do the math. $10,000 on a packed night, and that doesn't even include spectator tickets or concession sales.

T&T days are a "cash cow" at most tracks, and as long as it stays that way, the treatment of the racers on a race day will not get better. Royce Miller at MIR is one of the few track owner/operators that I know of that actually gives a damn about the racers.

[Hot Rod]

Ron,
[email protected]

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chiefbigb:
TA 454 I grew up in Youngstown Ohio and moved to the south in 1990.I after living in both areas and traveling back and forth from time to time I have found the a-hole percentage 1000 times more in your neck of the woods.Your north and south crap is showing you are dumb as hell and the chevrolet engine proves it.I have had my problems with Mr Verdi in the past but he is a die hard pontiac man and a above average bracket racer and I respect him for that.I could build a 10 second pontiac engine for less than you have in yours more than likely.Brian Ulrich <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BLAH-BLAH BOO-HOO WHINE PISS AND MOAN
CHEVY THIS BOO-HOO.

GET REAL JERK@FF I DONT KNOCK ANYONE FOR THEIR CHOICE ON HOW THEY BUILD THEIR CARS. SO WHY DO YOU AROGANT A$$HOLES ALWAYS GOTTA PROVE YOUR IGNORANCE.

Again i will agree to disagree!
You also get to pick a finger.
Have a nice day!!!!!!

[Paul Spotts]

I talked to David Butler today (great guy) I let him know about the Renegade event so they don't sponsor an event with only a few Pontiacs at it. We will be keeping in touch and may even join forces. The Butlers took care of the people who went rounds with gift certificates - just looks like the track is responsible for the semi payouts and bracket 3 money.

I also talked to C-cass at PY and they are not supporting the MG event next year. MG even screwed PY as well.

[fast72lemans]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> If we did a ladder style it would start Mongo vs Spotty! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's just not right!!!!

[RH152]

glad i didnt make the 3 plus hr tow thought it would be a bad day wait till Atco they are running a motorcycle race with the Pontiacs that should be fun see you next yr in virginia

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff V:
TA454
I guess you must be Jim Zeek's brother,cause I heard he had a brother who wanted to race at VMP but couldn't due to a transbrake.You could have raced VMP in Top ET,right?The real reason you couldn't race is you run a Chevy engine.Why do you have a Pontiac with a Chevy engine?Get a Camaro and run the Super Chevy events like you should.You have no input on this board with your Chevy powered P.O.S.If you don't like racing at the Grove,don't go back.Very simple.Racers like you just want to be catered to,and complain when things aren't done your way.Just shut up and race. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jack ass
I did race at VMP.
I do have a transbrake.
I did race in MOD.
I do run at super chevy.
I have even run super chevy at VMP,and the grove ,and norwalk,and new england dragway.
In fact i was at VMP 2 yrs before the pontiac race was even thought of. I liked the facility and staff enough to even post on this very board bout the track. Guess what i probably mentioned to my brother once or twice thast it would be a nice place for an event. I know there are others that i told also.
It is RACERS like you that piss the rest of us off. Whining bout trans brakes in cars and insisting that they have gotta be removed from the car. Some of us actually have morals enought to not use them when the rules dont allow. The fact that you dont trust other racers just proves that you are not trustworthy.

As far as racers like me. I dont consider myself a serious racer. I am a hobbiest that likes to go fast and hang out with like minded people. Racing is golf that is it it is a hobby!

The fact that I have a chevy has nothing to do with racing or not. In fact you must be stupid if you think that was an ever an issue. The type of engine was never stipulated for VMP except for the Q16.

It is not about the money. It was never about the money. It is about the treatment that we receive. We go to these events to relax with freinds not to get ***** on. In a large part these events would still draw a contestants even with out a purse. The show at island and even Englishtown are proof of that.
True E-town has fallen due to noise restrictions but with out the restrictions even the faster cars like Jim and Scott Rex used to show up. There was never a purse there just trophys. People (pontiac people) go to these events to be with freinds and contest freindly rivalrys.
How can you say I want to be catered to with your ignorant attitude. you are the plick that whined bout bud lyons, myself ,and others having brakes.Why do we have brakes because they are FUN as a motherf#@*er.
Like I said before GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$ AND GET A CLUE.
P.S.
Chevy powered pos.
Whats a matter jethro cant think up anything original. Thats why you freaken rednecks lost the war.
OH Thats right some of YOU retards are still fightin it.

[Badbird69]

Here's how Al Corda at Rock Falls Raceway in Eau Claire, WI runs his club events. The Pontiac Club sets up a race date on a test and tune saturday at a reduced "Pontiac Club only" entry fee. What you soon find out is that it is also Buick Club, Olds Club, Mopar Club and Mustang Club race day as well. Each club gets a staging lane of their own to line up in and wait, while three lanes of "regular entry fee" cars make two or three time trials to your one. After lunch there is an "impromptu" gamblers race, but you have to bail out of your club event and pay extra to participate.
The reality is that a club event doesn't mean squat to the track. So now instead of looking for a "deal" to save five bucks, I'll just pay the normal entry fee and go racing. I'm just glad to have more than one track to choose from. Besides.....I thinks its fun beating chevies and fords.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Paul. You make it a Full 2 Day Pure Pontiac Event with an open Track Friday night T & T......... The Dude will be there.

But not The Grove.
Would love to travel to '3' Pure Pontiac Events next year.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

It's not so much This year, as people came, people saw, people raced. It's what took place at the event and issues leading up to MG for the 3 continious year.
Maybe the icing on the Cake was what transpired this year after previous years of treatment.

Some people will never see the issues. Some will, some will be undecided. But the Majority of the Pontiac racers got and continue to get <span class="ev_code_RED">Screwed</span> by the Maple Grove program put on for Pontiac hobbyiest and Racers!!!!
And rushed after the event is over, etc, the list could go on for each individual or class.

But how many times does one get <span class="ev_code_RED">The Reach-a-round</span> before Pontiac racers stand up, "as a group", and make there Grievances shown??????

Gonna save this topic and see if Pontiac racers as a whole will band together and do what has to be done. Whether it affects you totally, partically or not.

Maybe some people like to feel like a Timex watch.

If you take the treatment and/or abuse and continue to support an Event, what makes you think the treatment will change after years of the same issues brought up again and again.

[Jeff V]

...posted by TA454...
It is RACERS like you that piss the rest of us off. Whining bout trans brakes in cars and insisting that they have gotta be removed from the car. Some of us actually have morals enought to not use them when the rules dont allow. The fact that you dont trust other racers just proves that you are not trustworthy.

---When did I ever whine about transbrakes in Mod class?I mentioned to Jim that it is a RULE down here in The South,that's it.

As far as racers like me. I dont consider myself a serious racer. I am a hobbiest that likes to go fast and hang out with like minded people. Racing is golf that is it it is a hobby!

---That's good because you obviously suck at being a racer.

It is not about the money. It was never about the money. It is about the treatment that we receive. We go to these events to relax with freinds not to get ***** on.

---If you just go to hang with friends,then why worry about what other cars are there?

How can you say I want to be catered to with your ignorant attitude. you are the plick that whined bout bud lyons, myself ,and others having brakes.Why do we have brakes because they are FUN as a motherf#@*er.
Like I said before GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$ AND GET A CLUE.

---Again,when did I whine about brakes?

Whats a matter jethro cant think up anything original. Thats why you freaken rednecks lost the war.
OH Thats right some of YOU retards are still fightin it.[/QUOTE]

---You know,the more I think about it,you are so smart.I wish I could be just like you.I wish I could say things about all Northerners based on what I see in your posts.No wonder we SOUTHERN boys won all the Pontiac races this year.

[nasty66gto]

Alot of racers struggle with time money and effort just to make Pont events yes Jim had the balls to leave but what about the almost 100.00 or more
most racer put out in tolls gas and entrance fees just to race one day or do you throw most of that money and time out the window and go home just on princable alone and was a day of racing now a real protest of the track would be to block the stagging lane till we got the respect we paid for then maybe the pont event could be taking seriously