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#1
10-08-2003, 11:45 AM
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Id like to bring my 69 GTO into the modern age with a Overdrive Auto. Theres a few choices and Id like to hear your thoughts. The Car is 400/400 right now with a 4.11 gear. Engine is basically stock with Edlebrock 750 carb. I do intend to slowly ratchet up the power, but it wont ever be beyond 12's. Looks like the choices are the 200R4,the 700, or the 4L60. Only thing Ive heard so far is the 200 has a nice gear spread.
It is good that war is so terrible, or else we may grow too fond of it.
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"If you cant fly then run, if you cant run then walk, if you cant walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward." |
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#2
10-13-2003, 06:22 AM
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Probably the best modification I have made to my 65 GTO was to put a 200/4R trans in it. 400 with 3.73 gears (13.20’s @ 106 in quarter). I got the trans for free from a friend but junkyards have a lot of these transmissions. The newer the trans. the better. http://www.bulkparts.com/ is where I picked up the rebuild kit converter. I think I had $450 in the rebuild kit, converter, and shift kit from Summit. Rebuilt it myself. Second gear is a little soft under full throttle but I just need to install a larger servo for like $120. I would recommend getting one of these from a junkyard and taking it to a local shop if you don’t want to do it yourself (Hays makes a book on rebuilding transmissions). Bolts in TH400 x-member location, TH350 yolk, and the same driveshaft. The larger the boost valve in the pump the better. My shift kit came with a .500” unit. I can’t think of the brand off the top of my head but it came from Summit and was like $110. Speedometer gears were like 40-60 bucks! I used the same from a Monte SS.
Hays Manual 13 vane pump kit Hardened stator shaft support Second gear servo Shift kit Rebuild kit Fluid and filter New trans mount 350 yolk (junkyard or someone always has one) TV cable TV cable bracket OK I’ll stop rambling not. Who ever thought pinewood derby cars would lead to this!
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Todd Sedlmeier Who ever thought pinewood derby cars would lead to this! October 2004 HPP Shootout participate http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...out/index.html 86 Grand Prix 535 High Port 8.93 @ 153 65 GTO 433 High Port 12.04 @ 113 |
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#3
10-09-2003, 12:35 PM
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the 700r4 and the 4l60 are the same tranny. The 700r4 is a chevy only bolt pattern but there are adapters to bolt to a pontiac engine. Most 200r4s are a GM universal pattern (both BOP and Chevy). Infact every 200r4 that I have seen had the universal patter. I beleive in stock trim the 700 are tougher than the 200s but with the money they can be built tough enough. Do a search and you will find plenty of info on this subject.
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#4
10-13-2003, 05:09 AM
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3.55 x .270 = .9585 + 3.55 = 4.5085 1st gear advantage.
3.55 x .640 = 2.272 final gear ratio w/OD This is how I see it. Some one correct me if I'm doing this wrong.  Greg
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Greg 1969 Firebird/400/th400/3.42:1 rear 1/4=? MPH=? (WIP) 1983 1/2 ton Silverado/lwb/305 (89 FB)/ MSD ign/Mallery coil/83 intake/ 700-r4(rebuilt w/shift kit and corvette servo)/ 3.73 gears/31x10x15 all terrains. 10.9 1/8 mile. 17.xx 1/4 mile 1996 C2500/6.5L TD/4L80e(shift improved),4" exhaust cold air intake, mechanical WG controller 3.73 gears/265-75-16 w/Eagle allows. 2002 1500 Suburban/stock 1986 Fiero GT,needs engine. |
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#5
10-10-2003, 04:55 PM
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Plenty of guys running very fast Grand Nationals, look at the site I posted, and there's a turbo Buick board http://www.buickturbo.com/forums/ind...9ebfdc334249fb People running 200-4R's. Doesn't hurt to call and talk to them. Plus it's almost a drop-in. Only a little bigger than the 350, no change in driveshaft.
 Nothing is real if you don't believe in yourself-Rocky Balboa
__________________
Nothing is real if you don't believe in yourself-Rocky Balboa A government is a body of people, usually, notably ungoverned-shepherd brook in firefly join the PY group on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...8742503&ref=ts become a fan of PY on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...9458653?ref=ts |
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#6
10-09-2003, 06:55 PM
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What about physical size? Would the 4l60 Fit in the trans tunnel and mount up?
It is good that war is so terrible, or else we may grow too fond of it.
__________________
"If you cant fly then run, if you cant run then walk, if you cant walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward." |
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#7
10-13-2003, 06:07 AM
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Remember, at the track the OD will never engage. So do your 1/4 mile gearing calculations with the first 3 gears only.
Warren Ksiez - http://www.pontiaconline.com/members/32 75 TA/455/SP400/3.42 4100lbs. [email protected]
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Warren Ksiez - http://www.pontiaconline.com/members/32 75 TA/455/Wenzler II/SP400/3.42 4000lbs. ET's comming soon. |
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#8
10-11-2003, 05:52 PM
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Maybe a Ring gear change is in order? I really liek the 4.11 launch, but of course, turning like 3500 at 60 Mph isnt so nice. I looked into the bolt-on overdrive units a while back, and while it is the "ultimate", its also very steep price-wise. I know the 200R4 is like 2000$ for a new one on the web, but ive also heard you can get the same thing much cheaper done locally if the shop is reputable. Thanks for the info!
"On the highways, it was a white-line nightmare...men were battered and smashed..."
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"If you cant fly then run, if you cant run then walk, if you cant walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward." |
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#9
10-09-2003, 12:43 PM
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If money is no object do some research on the 4l80e. It is based on the t400 with an OD unit thrown in the case.
They are expensive and require a external controller ( Compushift). They appear to be bullet proof. Everything is adjustable via the controller- line pressure, wot shift rpm, etc etc. The 4l80 is also big and heavy. There are a few on Ebay right now that apear to be a very good deal. One is 600.00 no controller. I f I had the extra cash i would buy it and moth ball it. HTH John 69 Judge(currently parting out) |
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#10
10-11-2003, 10:56 PM
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Running a 3.55 gear with a 200-4R will give you the same effect as a TH400 and 3.90s in 1st gear, while giving you something in the neighborhood of 2.41s while in OD. HTH
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-------------------------- He, who laughs last... |
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#11
10-10-2003, 04:06 PM
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Why not look into a Gear Vendors overdrive? They're not cheap but you end up with double the number of gears you had to begin with. If you've got a TH 400 you'll end up with six gears. You can keep the 4.11s and still have a nice comfortable cruising speed.
Here's the website: http://www.gearvendors.com/ 69GPModJ Moderation in everything--including moderation. WC Fields.
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69GPModJ Moderation in everything--including moderation. WC Fields. |
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#12
10-10-2003, 09:17 AM
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Check out http://www.ptsxtreme.com/ the 200-4r is only a little bit bigger than a th-350. Very little mods needed, I will be buying one from these guys when I can.
Nothing is real if you don't believe in yourself-Rocky Balboa
__________________
Nothing is real if you don't believe in yourself-Rocky Balboa A government is a body of people, usually, notably ungoverned-shepherd brook in firefly join the PY group on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...8742503&ref=ts become a fan of PY on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...9458653?ref=ts |
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#13
10-09-2003, 08:00 PM
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Check out CPT California Performance Transmissions,Art Carr builds 200-4r trannies for GN Turbo cars. The newest issue of CHP has an article on some of the mods that they do to make them hold up to some real power. They do a 400 to 200-4r swap into a 396 chevelle. I've got two that I plan to build with their parts,one is a cheby case the other is a uni-case.
 Greg
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Greg 1969 Firebird/400/th400/3.42:1 rear 1/4=? MPH=? (WIP) 1983 1/2 ton Silverado/lwb/305 (89 FB)/ MSD ign/Mallery coil/83 intake/ 700-r4(rebuilt w/shift kit and corvette servo)/ 3.73 gears/31x10x15 all terrains. 10.9 1/8 mile. 17.xx 1/4 mile 1996 C2500/6.5L TD/4L80e(shift improved),4" exhaust cold air intake, mechanical WG controller 3.73 gears/265-75-16 w/Eagle allows. 2002 1500 Suburban/stock 1986 Fiero GT,needs engine. |
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#14
10-14-2003, 08:29 AM
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Or maybe a 3.73... Btw, I hear the hardest part of the swap is usually getting the TV cable adjusted?
"On the highways, it was a white-line nightmare...men were battered and smashed..."
__________________
"If you cant fly then run, if you cant run then walk, if you cant walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward." |
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#15
10-09-2003, 06:56 PM
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Sorry, I mean 4l80...
It is good that war is so terrible, or else we may grow too fond of it.
__________________
"If you cant fly then run, if you cant run then walk, if you cant walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward." |
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#16
10-12-2003, 12:29 AM
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THE 200R4 IS A STRONG TRANS THE EARLY MODEL TRANS HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE STATER SHAFT AND THE DIRECT CLUTCH DRUM THE SPLINES WERE SOFT AND WOULD WIPE OUT EASY BUT IN 87 THEY UPGRADED THEM THE WAY YOU WOULD TELL WAS THE DRUM WAS ALUM IN COLOR ON THE INSIDE AND WAS UPGRADED AND HAD A DARKER COLOR ON THE INSIDE AND THE SAME FOR THE STATER SHAFT IT WAS ALUM IN COLOR AND WHEN UPGRADED IT TO WAS A DARKER COLOR ON THE SPLINES ALSO THIS WAS DONE WHEN THEY HEAT TREATED THESE PARTS THAT WAS THE ONLY WEAKNESS THE 200 HAD... AND THE 700R4 HAD A HOLE BUNCH OF PROBLEMS AND STILL DO IF YOU GO INTO A OD TRANS GO WITH THE 200 YOU WON:T HAVE AS MUCH PROBLEMS AND YOU CAN BEEF THEM UP WITH MORE CLUTCHS IN THE OD SECTION AND THE DERICT DRIVE SECTION AND ALSO GET A HEAVY DUTY BAND AND SERVO GOOD LUCK WHICH EVER WAY YOU GO
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#17
10-10-2003, 04:11 PM
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Low on a 200-4R is 2.75, and on the street is nicely spaced. A 700R4 is 3.06. That's a low gear.
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#18
10-11-2003, 09:31 AM
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Take a look at the V2OD overdrive unit from
http://www.usgear.com
__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) Best time 5.13 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
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#19
10-08-2003, 11:45 AM
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Id like to bring my 69 GTO into the modern age with a Overdrive Auto. Theres a few choices and Id like to hear your thoughts. The Car is 400/400 right now with a 4.11 gear. Engine is basically stock with Edlebrock 750 carb. I do intend to slowly ratchet up the power, but it wont ever be beyond 12's. Looks like the choices are the 200R4,the 700, or the 4L60. Only thing Ive heard so far is the 200 has a nice gear spread.
It is good that war is so terrible, or else we may grow too fond of it.
__________________
"If you cant fly then run, if you cant run then walk, if you cant walk then crawl, but whatever you do you have to keep moving forward." |
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#20
10-11-2003, 06:39 AM
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Bowtie overdrives have some nice crossmembers for doing swaps with 700s and 200s. I just got one and it is very nice(they also make a slick one for early Impalas.
Just got a 200R to use in my son's 81 TA driver.
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune [email protected] 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs 1964 Corvette Coupe 327 4 speed |
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