[J.C.you]

Nice to hear Kauffman is picking up the ball and going with the IA block deal.

How about some killer heads now, maybe a canted valve deal. The IA blocks can handle the offset push rod angles. We need a poncho head that can make 1000+ hp NA. I know Bruce (Machie spelling? sorry) and maybe a few other are doing this, but its time to even the playing field with the C, F, M guys.

66 GTO RED TIGER

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Forget all this canted and hemi, etc. Just design a head with egaul port spacing and higher port configuration and do the math on valve size to flow in the 475+ @ 700 range. We already have a 400/425 cfm head.
Then make a 4 bbl cast manifold to boot of course with the Nitrous/EFI bosses included. All other 2-4 set ups can go the sheet metal gimic.

Think outside the box. Your talking High end use for a limited market anyway. There are current heads that will work for 90% of the racers and streeter's now. Look at the Ford and SB-2 thinking.

If I want a Pontiac looking head at this stage......I'll stick to Cast iron. You can always Cast Pontiac on the exhaust rumners or the side. LOL.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[J.C.you]

We don't need a zeek block, we need a zeek head.

Rob, why 11 sets? Is that the magic no? I think the head should be a wet head with dry deck, which u could drill if u want for block/ head cooling.

66 GTO RED TIGER

[Jim Zeek]

Or maybe Dick is waiting for the only one left on the planet for sale to be sold?

[Tom Vaught]

I wonder what they would charge me for a set on heads with a "Weber IDA carb" bore spacing with
the centerline of the intake ports? Kind of like
a "WEBER SB2/Pontiac Ram Air 4"!

Would make a great head for a street rod with a "d" port exhaust!

Tom V.

[Goatman]

He's been trying to pass the ball Jim, but its guys like you that want to run your mouths, but not actually do anything about it that make it impossible for another "hero" to do this very easy job.

You killed a post? LOL You don't really believe that, do you? If you were serious, you'd be doing something other than typing now, right Jim?

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Goatman]

Mopar? You must be joking! Indy is the KING of power. Right there with the BB Chevy guys.

Not Buick either.

Buicks have aftermarket blocks, HUGE heads, and that's all they need!

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Rob]

It's a tough break for IA all around, I asked Dick everytime we met how things were going and he was always trying to be positive.

I think a standing ovation is appropriate for Dick, Tom, and everyone else at Indian Adventures. They've done plenty for Pontiac what millions of GM dollars haven't.

Thanks Again!

-Rob

[Rob]

Heard KRE was shopping for second CNC machine today. Anybody got one laying around?

Has to be able to machine about 4 cylinders wide on 4 5/8 bore spacing!

-Rob

[TUNNEL PORT]

421, Your useing old factory parts Great, me to. Ive used 30+ yr old parts for years just like everyone else here & spent way to much $ on hard to impossible to find original pontiac parts like RA IV & V or SD heads, rods ect. We can & have proved many times over the years that chevy, ford & pontiac that put together with original factory sold parts of the same era we are more than a match.& Tom's right some change is good & can only help us. If we would have had the Hemi motor & RA V motors from 69'-70'accualy sold in car to public then Summit & Jegs would have had many more pages becouse all the pont after market parts that would have been backed by Pont. Pontiacs old parts design works fine only if all other makes had the same limited selection. I want as many aftermarket parts to choose from as they have & at about or the same $. A chevy crate motor seems to be just like a computer, the moment you by it theres a much better up graded verion for the same $ that just came out

[J.C.you]

What do the lastest Mopar nail head design flow with the big mopar bore? I am thinking with Rob with the max cly bore available to ponchos shrouding will limit power potential. To my knowledge we do not have a block that will go 4.5+ Goatman, so quit wishing.

66 GTO RED TIGER

[BVR421]

Just have play devils advocate here
IA/KRE block, exotic dohc hemi heads or with solinoid op valve actuation?
What part of that motor would be remotely considered Pontiac?
Why bother when the ProStock GM engines are so readily available?
The prostock motors are Pontiac in name only but so are the wild combos you guys are talking about.
Im not against progress and development for our antique cars but at what point is it arguably a Pontiac in name only?
With my dhead 428 I can safely call it a Pontiac and be proud of that in spite of the limitation for potential. Once a conventional Pontiac motor reachs, what? 750hp range isnt that about it? At that point why not accept it and move to another design and drop the pretense that the new one will be a Pontiac.

Conciousness, that annoying interval of time between naps.

[Jim Zeek]

How am I making it impossible? All I do is ask when are they coming out? I heard KRE was ready to do the deal but Dick was the one who balked. I've been asking Dick about blocks for a year and a half. Last August (2002) I was told November/December. When I called in December I was told April/May. Then it went to August. It is now November 2003. Well when is it? You know how long it takes to get a billet crank. I'm not going to order one only to have it sit on the shelf for 3 years. If its so easy why hasn't Dick done it yet. We don't need any hero's. We want BLOCKS! I don't care who makes it. Just make it.

[Rob]

Rumair,

Sorry, Nitro-Methane engines run Solid Aluminum Billet Heads. There are no passages for coolant of any kind (water) to allow you to run the engine for longer periods of time.

A water head is just slang for a cylinder head that has water jackets. Head would come from a casting of aluminum and not a billet of aluminum. Pretty important to have if you want to run more than 5-10 minutes at a time.

Remember seeing Lee Beard and John Force having a discussion earlier this year? You burn down a Fuel car and people can get hurt.

-Rob

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tommieboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Is TA making this new V8 block? I see no mention at their website. Neither at CDP.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.paeenterprises.com/coming...></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for the link.

[FantomPoncho]

Basically, KRE, Butler, and just about everyone on this board is continuing where GM dropped the ball in '81. I think most of us are continuing the R&D on an engine that we feel is superior.

I believe that had GM made the right decision in '81, drop the chevy and continued with the better-designed Pontiac, all of our parts catalogs would be filled with after market Pontiac parts and a small 2-page section for the chebby guys.

However, reality is vastly different. The creation of all these new after-market parts, slowly but surely, validate what GM could not see...that the Pontiac V8 design was superior. Considering the fact that there has not been a production Pontiac in 22 years and the engine is thriving more than ever is a credit to it's design.

Soon everyone on this board will see what a Pontiac Hemi will do on Steve Barcak's blown fuel digger. The Hemi heads have already been given the OK to be run in the class by NHRA tech. In the next couple years, all will see great advances in head and block design, based on the Pontiac model.

[Rob]

There's some pride racing something similar to what you went to the cruise-ins with and use whatever technology learned to have a competive race car.

Scott Rex, Jack Gaydosh, Jim Yanoski, these guys and many others are independent racers using the engine they've grown up with, taking the "I'd rather fight than switch" attitude as far as it can go.

It's cool taking something past where you found it.


-Rob

[Jim Zeek]

Yea. Just as funny as when I shut you and Dick up and killed a 12 page post on the aluminum block when I asked about the status of the IA blocks that were supposed to be ready for Norwalk! I never said I was going to build any blocks. If I was, I would tell you the truth of when they would be available. A couple of weeks or a month or two is an understandable delay. But a year and a half? Come on now. Dick keeps making promises and then doesn't come through. People are waiting for blocks. Make them or pass the ball to someone else.

[Goatman]

Nope, we're all just waiting for some loudmouth to do it better.......

I'm like heaven, everybody wanna get to me.........

[Rob]

$67,210.00 for 11 sets, or $23,450 for the first pair recievable in 12 weeks. Price is for a finshed cylinder head empty - no valves, springs, etc. That was also for Billets, no water. Didn't price the water heads, but possible, just add another month or two.
I think I could get somewhere in between if 4-5 people are interested in a large Hobby investment.

If anyone is interested, post, email or give me a call (419-560-1004 cell).

-Rob