[Cliff R]

Just an update on running solid rollers on a hydrauilic roller cam. No issues to date.

We have quite a bit of running time on the new engine, and about a dozen track runs. Figured I'd check the valve lash. This time I used the procedure from Jim Hand's book, using lobe positions instead of the running them at TDC for each cylinder.

Most of the valves were right on the money, had a couple we had to open up slightly, and a couple we had to close down some. The last time I set them, it was done with the engine dead cold, at .006" clearance.

None of them were over .008" and under .004", so they really hadn't moved around any. I was hearing just a bit more noise then when we first set them, which prompted me to run them again.

Using the lobe position method, the engine is dead quiet in the valvetrain, moreso than any hydraulic or solid set-up we've ever ran.......Cliff

[Mr. P-Body]

Cliff,

Thanks for the update. Your experience reflects what we've seen in others.

Jim

[PONTIAC DUDE]

While you were spending the time and energy to check your solids on a hyd I was having a beer and watching TV.

Race Hard & Have Fun.

BTW: I need to get a Q-jet to ya to do for the Wife's car so we can get more MPG and still have that WFO effect instead of that Big Bore Holley.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

BTW: Anyone can run anything. That's part of the R & D. Just bustin balls.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

While you were spending the time and energy to check your solids on a hyd I was having a beer and watching TV.

No need to run the valves when your brand new heads are already torched eh!

Still haven't run mine and it has been together over 2 years... solid roller, solid roller lifters...

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 69Goat1

No need to run the valves when your brand new heads are already torched eh!

Still haven't run mine and it has been together over 2 years... solid roller, solid roller lifters...

What ever that first statement has to do with cams is beyond me other then the fact you got a Hard on for my pump gas combo off the PZ board. Don't worry i got the low down on your from a few in your area that PM'd me. LOL.

But anyway the quality of the head is amazing. I made a pass and forgot to turn on my water pump. Got to the end and then realized it. Turned it on. Went all the way around to zero and came back to 190.
Had water in 6 cylinders.

*** But I can lay a straight end on either head and straght as an arrow. Even the head I burnt between the cylinders is straight. If i could file the weld I wouldn't even have to resurface it. That goes to show the extra expense and time Jim at Roland racing went to. Apparently this issue started way back at VMP in May on my tune up and pump gas. Maybe making 650hp and adding 175 shot with 93 and NO 0-rings and std gaskets wasn't a good thing to do. Bwahahahahahahaha. And without giving me any warning signs. No miss anywhere even at 6600, no rough idle, no hard start, etc. But a first for me.

Then to run 6.30's with 6 cylinders on the fritz and not on the converter. More to come in about 3 weeks.

Besides You are on your 3rd engine in 3 years. I still have the same short block I ran 8.90's with 4 years ago and same rings/bearings. Will be using the same parts in the bottom end again. More then you can say. Amazing a stripped GTO can weight that much.

I am coming to Oklahoma, so save your money loudmouth. You can take that to the bank.

Back to the topic at hand. Ya gotta run your mouth. Take it to PZ. Gach won't care and the mods on here have a hard-a-tack when someone talks trash.

[stickboy]

So I ran my valves yesterday after 4 years of driving the car on the street, couple thousand miles. Comp Solid roller, 242, 248 was set to .016/.018. They had opened up to around .025-.028. I reset them to .014/.016. I know I'm a dumbass for not checking them sooner, but the car always ran good and never had any wierd issues. Here's my Q.....where does the wear typically occur to open up the clearence? And once this wear has started, does it continue until some part fails?

Roller lifter wheel trunnion
Pushrod cup in lifter
Pushrod/pushrod tip
Cup in roller rocker
trunnion in roller rocker
Polylock lash setting
Rocker tip
Valve stem head
Valve seat (would reduce clearance as it gets beat into the head)

All of the above? All valves had moved about the same amount, around 8-10 thou. I will say this, it was kindof a PITA to do, it's very sensitive and I had to get a feel for it, still took about 1 1/2 hours. I am slow.....
I will check them again after a few hundred miles on the new tranny setup.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

What ever that first statement has to do with cams is beyond me other then the fact you got a Hard on for my pump gas combo off the PZ board. Don't worry i got the low down on your from a few in your area that PM'd me. LOL.

But anyway the quality of the head is amazing. I made a pass and forgot to turn on my water pump. Got to the end and then realized it. Turned it on. Went all the way around to zero and came back to 190.
Had water in 6 cylinders.

*** But I can lay a straight end on either head and straght as an arrow. Even the head I burnt between the cylinders is straight. If i could file the weld I wouldn't even have to resurface it. That goes to show the extra expense and time Jim at Roland racing went to. Apparently this issue started way back at VMP in May on my tune up and pump gas. Maybe making 650hp and adding 175 shot with 93 and NO 0-rings and std gaskets wasn't a good thing to do. Bwahahahahahahaha. And without giving me any warning signs. No miss anywhere even at 6600, no rough idle, no hard start, etc. But a first for me.

Then to run 6.30's with 6 cylinders on the fritz and not on the converter. More to come in about 3 weeks.

Besides You are on your 3rd engine in 3 years. I still have the same short block I ran 8.90's with 4 years ago and same rings/bearings. Will be using the same parts in the bottom end again. More then you can say. Amazing a stripped GTO can weight that much.

I am coming to Oklahoma, so save your money loudmouth. You can take that to the bank.

Back to the topic at hand. Ya gotta run your mouth. Take it to PZ. Gach won't care and the mods on here have a hard-a-tack when someone talks trash.

Your absolutely right Ken - my car is dead slow and blows up every other pass - sometimes it doesn't even make it off the trailer before it blows. Everyone that PM's you has had complete hands on on the car and know exactly everything and were all standing right next to my car at weigh in. It weighs around 1200 lbs and has to run on 127 octane fuel... It will be a super easy race for you if my car doesn't disintegrate before it gets to the line and will be easy pickens and will probably be a total runaway

Gach has me in Moderation mode over there so he changes or deletes all my posts... it was especially funny when he posted as John Kaase over there trying to lend credibility to his unwarranted statements

The reason you have the same rings and bearings is because in 4 years you haven't run as much as I have in 4 months...

[Overkillphil]

Cliff, did you plan for that possibility in advance by having any machine work done for restricters, or are they not needed to swap to those solid roller lifters?

[Murf'sDad]

Thanx Cliff. My UD cam is in transit and the lifters are about to be ordered. It's great to hear how yours has worked out. I can't wait to get mine up and running again.

Stewart

[Larry Navarro]

My setup is the duplicate of Cliffs and the lash is fine.

[Murf'sDad]

When I was working out the cam I wanted with Tim Goolsby at Bullet, we talked about the lash and how tight/loose etc. The bottom line was, run it between .004" and .010", whatever seems to work best for your setup. I'm going to set mine up at .006" personally. He had no problem with that.

Stewart

[69goatboy]

The caption for this section reads "no question too basic here.", so I'll put it to the test with my newbee q's.

What's the advantage or purpose of running the solid lifters w/ a HR cam?

Is this more of a race application, or would us regular street car folk benefit from this?

[Mr. P-Body]

69,

It began as a less expensive way to get out of the hydraulic rollers that had become troublesome in Rick Hollladay's car (2005). If one already HAS a hydraulic roller CAM, it's an expensive proposition to replace it. The lifters, on the other hand, are less expensive than the hydraulics and, more durable. Comp "blessed" it and added that we should reduce lash to a maximum of .010", so we did it.

It seems to have evolved to a point where one wants less "noise" from the valve train, and the tight lash is a way to get there. We have no real data whether or not a cam designed specifically FOR solids makes more or less power than the H/R cam with the solid lifters. One thing is certain. IT WORKS!

Old timers will recall we used to put solid flat tappets on Ram Air IV cams way back "when". Similar concept.

Jim

[Cliff R]

"Cliff, did you plan for that possibility in advance by having any machine work done for restricters, or are they not needed to swap to those solid roller lifters?"

They are not needed with the lifters we are using, as the oil flow is metered at the lifter.

Advantages? Depends I guess on who you talk to? For me, it simply takes the hydraulics out of the equation, and shaves some weight from the lifters. Some folks say it matters not, others say it's good for a bit of power. For me, it simply allows us to enjoy the benefits of a hydraulic roller cam, and the "what you see is what you get" deal from the solid lifters....plus, I like testing this sort of stuff!

The lash has NOT been a problem, and I wouldn't have expected it to be anyhow. We have heard of folks running as far as 15,000 miles between lash adjustments with the same set-up we are using.

I will say that the adjustment procedure outlined in Jim Hand's book sets the lifter on the center of the base circle, and the valvetrain is extremely quiet.....Cliff

[tom s]

I check mine once a year just to sober up!Never had to touch them.Been running them for many years.BUT I do run close to 200 on the seat with 600 open with 660 lift.Tom

[Overkillphil]

Cliff, what solid rollers are you using?

[Skip Fix]

So Tom S running a hydraulic design with solids or just solds on a solid designed cam?

Be interesting to run the cam and a similar lobed solid design in a Cam Doctor profiler.

[tom s]

hyd roller cam with solid rollers.The very first RA V engine I built got the deal as a recomend by Comp Cams.Tom

[Skip Fix]

Just wonder why a different lobe solid roller wouldn't be as good or better. Maybe a "tight lash" roundy round that is easy on valvetrain (they have to last miles not a 1/4 at a time). Or I wonder if the HR do not have as quick a ramp as a flat tappet hydraulic, since the flat tappets don't have to be gentle taking up lash.