[The Boss]

Could you order the 4-wheel disc brake option outside of the WS6 option in a 79 Formula?

[80ws6ta]

Yes. It was the J65 RPO code.

[The Boss]

Available on both the 2bbl & 4bbl 301 or just the 4bbl?

[80ws6ta]

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that all you had to do was tell the dealer you wanted the upgrade in brakes and they would get it. The only way to be sure would be to get a PHS and see if it comes up in the RPO code listing (unless you have the original build sheet).

[2manyT/A'S]

According to Pontiac Selling Facts Sept 1978, J65 (power brakes,front & rear disc) were available on ALL W66 Formulas with 4bbl.301/350c V8 engines & WS4 Trans ams for 150.00.

There were included with WS6 option.

301/305 2bbl & V6 were NOT eligible.

[The Boss]

Thanks guys, that's the information I was looking for. So no guarantee it's a WS6 car, but the 4-Wheel disc does guarantee it's the 4bbl version (since the engine code doesn't differentiate, and the Formula could be ordered with either).

Now the follow-up question.....when delivered in a 4spd Formula, how anemic is the 301 @ 150 HP??? I've found a super low mileage original paint/interior car optioned pretty nicely that I can pick up fairly reasonably. But will the ride/drive be enjoyable, or merely look nice?

[2manyT/A'S]

If you give me the engine code from vin,we should be able to figure out the carb size.

Which trans does it have,Saginaw or ST-10?

[The Boss]

Engine code is W, don't know which trans. Would the disc rear only come as a posi or could it be open?

[muscle_collector]

does anyone have a copy of a phs with the disc rear without the ws6? i dont think i have ever seen one myself.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Engine code is W, don't know which trans. Would the disc rear only come as a posi or could it be open?

i personally have never seen a disc rear that wasnt posi. (not that they didnt make it). i have had several of the 301 4 speed t/a's over the years and all of them that i had, have had the disc rear and they all had 3:08 gears instead of the 3:23 like the 400 cars got. i wander if you could have ordered them with the 3:23????

[midyear]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

i personally have never seen a disc rear that wasnt posi. (not that they didnt make it). i have had several of the 301 4 speed t/a's over the years and all of them that i had, have had the disc rear and they all had 3:08 gears instead of the 3:23 like the 400 cars got. i wander if you could have ordered them with the 3:23????

I have a 79 Z code formula with a 3.23 non posi disc rear in it. since posi was an option on a formula, somehow this car missed that chesk box. the PHS confirmed it.

[74 SD455 Formula]

Originally Posted by midyear

I have a 79 Z code formula with a 3.23 non posi disc rear in it. since posi was an option on a formula, somehow this car missed that chesk box. the PHS confirmed it.

Not to argue with you,but was'nt the Posi part of the WS6 option which was manditory on the "Z" coded cars ( T/A & Formula )along with the 4spd and 4 wheel disc brake set up and 8in Snowflake's.

[midyear]

Originally Posted by 74 SD455 Formula

Not to argue with you,but was'nt the Posi part of the WS6 option which was manditory on the "Z" coded cars ( T/A & Formula )along with the 4spd and 4 wheel disc brake set up and 8in Snowflake's.

I guess not on a formula. I have 2 79 Z code formulas, one has G80 posi, one does not. I have PHS on both, one PHS shows posi, one PHS does not. one without also did not came with a tach? go figure, U17 ip tach was an still an option...t-top car with quite a few options too.

[The Boss]

Were they fun to drive or slugs?

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Were they fun to drive or slugs?

We need to know what transmission is in the car in order to answer that question.

1979 T/A with 301/4 speed came with a super LOW 1st gear.(3.44)

MOST other 4 speeds in Trans ams were 2:64 or 2:88.

The 3:44 low gear made the 301 pull like a 200 hp 400 in first & second,then you had a BIG rpm drop going into 3rd & fell right out of the power band.

It's almost like a 5 speed with no 3rd gear.

The Saginaw likely had a 3:00 1st,so it wouldn't pull NEAR as hard.

If it's a NICE car & affordable,just go BUY IT. (clutch pedals in 79-81's are FEW & FAR between!)

[gto4door]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

We need to know what transmission is in the car in order to answer that question.

1979 T/A with 301/4 speed came with a super LOW 1st gear.(3.44)

MOST other 4 speeds in Trans ams were 2:64 or 2:88.

The 3:44 low gear made the 301 pull like a 200 hp 400 in first & second,then you had a BIG rpm drop going into 3rd & fell right out of the power band.

It's almost like a 5 speed with no 3rd gear.

The Saginaw likely had a 3:00 1st,so it wouldn't pull NEAR as hard.

If it's a NICE car & affordable,just go BUY IT. (clutch pedals in 79-81's are FEW & FAR between!)

This is an interesting thread and a great learning experience for me on these 301 4-speed Formulas.

We really need The Boss (Chris) to chime back in to tell us more about this car. If it is indeed the Sierra Copper Formula that I am thinking Chris is trying to buy, this particular car is a non-A/C car and was built June 1979. From that info can you tell what transmission the car may have?

I agree clutch pedal '79 -'81 F-body cars are few and far between. BUY IT!

[1973T/A]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

We need to know what transmission is in the car in order to answer that question.

1979 T/A with 301/4 speed came with a super LOW 1st gear.(3.44)

MOST other 4 speeds in Trans ams were 2:64 or 2:88.

The 3:44 low gear made the 301 pull like a 200 hp 400 in first & second,then you had a BIG rpm drop going into 3rd & fell right out of the power band.

It's almost like a 5 speed with no 3rd gear.

The Saginaw likely had a 3:00 1st,so it wouldn't pull NEAR as hard.

If it's a NICE car & affordable,just go BUY IT. (clutch pedals in 79-81's are FEW & FAR between!)

This is exActly right I have 79 4 speed 301 car and there geared low from first and second are surpisingly quick and once u hit third there dogs. My car is Borg warner tranny. But I spun a bearing on the 301 and pulled and put in a 455. This is my opinion but the 301 has to be the worst Pontiac V8 made JMHO.

Pax

[GT182]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Were they fun to drive or slugs?

My 79 4bbl 301 WS6 Formula was no slug. It would take a 79 4bbl 302 Ford Thunderbird off the line and out run it. At least mine did a number of times. LOL

Just looked at my window sticker and the WS6 package was 434.00. Space Saver spare was .10. With WS6 package rear disc brakes on mine, it was a posi unit. Cost was 63.00.

List without options.... 6,204.45
Options total.... 1526.10
Total cost.... 7,985.55
My cost.... 6,500.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by GT182

My 79 4bbl 301 WS6 Formula was no slug. It would take a 79 4bbl 302 Ford Thunderbird off the line and out run it. At least mine did a number of times. LOL

Just looked at my window sticker and the WS6 package was 434.00. Space Saver spare was .10. With WS6 package rear disc brakes on mine, it was a posi unit. Cost was 63.00.

List without options.... 6,204.45
Options total.... 1526.10
Total cost.... 7,985.55
My cost.... 6,500.

Mine has the WS6 and the G80 Limited Slip too, no space saver spare - says there is a 5th wheel like the ones on the car in the trunk.

MSRP was $8,190.55 on mine - I paid less.

[gto4door]

Boss,
If it is the Sierra Copper Formula that I think you are considering............who cares if it is a slug or not. That is a very clean low mile car at a very good price. Buy it!