[71HOT/A]

Does anybody have the car this block came out of ? 76XW 322092 9773155 B264

[BOB VIDAN]

You can't tell in 64 as the vin number didn't start being added to the bock until 67 or 68.

[bill ryder]

What is the build date or date code? "Bill"!

[ron cozzo]

The motor unit number is on the warranty plate. If its a KC car, there's an imprint of the warranty plate on the shipping history from PHS. Soooooo, it's a long shot, but someone may know what they're missing.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 71HOT/A

Does anybody have the car this block came out of ? 76XW 322092 9773155 B264

Thats the EUN that Ron is talking about.
No way to do anything with that number on a 64 unless - as said - someone has the Protect-O-Plate and see's your post.
20,000 (+/-) to 1 odds at the very best.

67 68 BHC list the EUN , but you cant pull up a file by the EUN via PHS
mmm ... alphabet soup


Very Cool to have that Block though.
Bill , B264 is the casting date for block

[71HOT/A]

Those are some long odds, but you never know. I would guess the car is long gone, I bought the block from a friend who got it when he lived in Michigan. It's a little rusty, standard bore with main caps.

[Tom Vaught]

I know it is not my block/engine as mine is still in my garage on an engine stand (sealed up). Tom V

[War eagle]

Actually to the nay sayers here, MANY collector car forums have a sticky where owners and sellers can make an attempt to reunite there car and engine. I listed 2 engines here and over at the other Pontiac site and did remarry one engine to it`s GTO. Again as said before, the build sheet with the Engine Production Number is vital, and although a close date and approx. engine number is possible and easily replicated on another engine core, the number IS the engine serial number and ties the car and engine. John V. can correctly predict the engine production number down to a hair.

The corvette guys are more interested I think in all numbers matching. Craig Jackson recently noted that he had sold ALL of known to have been built 450hp cars. He also said of the known 14 cars KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN BUILT, close to 30 have survived and REGISTERED and AUTHENTICATED by the club!

I would be on board if someone wanted to have a section here that could safely get engine/car back together. I say this as posted VIN`s come into play.

[John V.]

Originally Posted by War eagle

John V. can correctly predict the engine production number down to a hair.

"A hair" is stretching it, but I can usually predict the original '64 Motor Unit No. pretty closely if I know the Time Built code for the car and where it was built.

This scenario is reversed. You know the Motor Unit No. and guessing when and where the car was built. And then trying to establish the VIN.

Pretty big challenge.

The '64 KC & Baltimore cars will have an imprint of the factory Ident-O-Plate on the PHS record. Not all are very legible, so reading the exact MUN in the imprint on the record is difficult. Much "easier" if you have the original engine and match the MUN on the block to what is on the PHS record. Might not be able to read the digits clearly on the record, but if you already know what they "should" be, you'll usually be able to read it close enough to confirm originality.

The '64 Fremont docs also have the MUN on the PHS record. Usually pretty legible.

Unfortunately, that leaves the '64 Pontiac Plant cars. The PHS records for them do not show the MUN and they represent about 50% of the total production. So without the original Ident-O-Plate or some other original documentation, you will never know the MUN for the original engine installed in the Pontiac builds.

At that point, all you can do is guesstimate based on the cast date of the block (B264 in this example) and the MUN (322092) and comparing it to what is typically found.

The chances that the GTO it came out of still exists is slim. The chance that it exists and the owner is aware of PY is also pretty slim. So reuniting the block with the car is very unlikely.

Most likely the car it came from was built very late Feb or very early March if built at Pontiac, a few days to a couple weeks later if built at a satellite Plant based on what I've seen for cars being built in the March time frame. Engine Assemblies were assembled at Pontiac and were installed surprisingly soon after at the satellite Plants in many cases. The engines were usually assembled very quickly after the blocks were cast, so there was little lag time.

The tripower engine was not all that uncommon. In my experience, the 326HO engine assemblies were more likely to "sit" uninstalled at the satellite Plants as compared to the tripower GTO engines.

Of course, there are always exceptions. A rare block might not be assembled into an engine assembly for weeks after being cast, but that isn't the case with this block. Or an engine assembly might not get installed for weeks on end after being placed in inventory at the satellite Plants.

With that said, there is 0 chance that the original car was built before 2/26/64.

There is about a 99% chance the car was built before April and better than a 50% chance it was built prior to 3/24/64.

Even knowing all that, at best you would have to check thousands of records from KC, Balt, and Fremont for March built cars in the hope of finding one with that MUN on it. And PHS charges for every record you want to check.

So can't see that happening.

Since the Pontiac records don't include the MUN, the block would be most valuable to a guy looking for a "correct" block for his Pontiac built '64 GTO equipped with the tripower and 4 speed, IMO. I think the VIN sequence no. should be in the range of about P150000 to P175000, and assuming the Production Date is not before 2/26/64.

March built KC, Balt, and Fremont GTOs could also use it but the MUN won't match to what is shown on the PHS record.

If the GTO that this engine came out of does turn up, I'll be astounded.

In cases like this, I'm reminded of a friend who asked me in the early '90s if I thought the block he was holding onto was worth anything. It was the original block from the '69 Z28 he once owned. The engine blew and he swapped in a 283. He had long since sold off the car but hung into the block. I figured that block would be worth quite a bit to the guy who might have the Z28, even though it would have needed sleeving. But I had no idea how he'd be able to find the car. 20 years later, I don't know if he still has the block or not.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

This is just for sample (67 GTO) to show how EUN can tie back to a specific car.
In the "deep" records - PMD had the EUN logged for every car built from at least the 60's through the 70's .
It was mainly used as a cross reference for warranty and quality control issues.

Some alert bulletins would say to the effect - from EUN 032123 thru 042123 could be affected by this bulletin . etc ,,,

There is no MUN - motors are for electric windshield wipers
Just trying to help keep the term concise for future searchers of the subject

[John V.]

BVZ, I started referring to it as MUN years ago, probably because the appropriate box on the '64 Fremont PHS document is labeled "ENG. OR MOTOR UNIT NO.". Hard habit to break.

PMD generally referred to it as the Production Engine No. and sometimes the Engine Production No. in literature such as the '64 Tempest Shop Manual.

I will acquiesce and try to remember to use EUN in the interest of searchability using the Search Engine.

I'm aware of the motor vs. engine conventions. But the conventions aren't as clear cut as many believe.

As an engineer, I kinda like what is related here:

http://engineering.mit.edu/live/news...-and-an-engine

If you think it is clear cut, what kind of oil do you put in your Pontiac 400?

What do you call that thing hanging off the back of your bass boat?



I find the origins of words kinda fascinating. I often tell the story of the term "catty-corner". That's how I learned it in NY growing up. Then in the midwest, I heard "kitty-corner". In fact, the word has nothing to do with felines, the word is catercorner. It was corrupted to catty-corner in the northeast, and further corrupted to kitty-corner in the midwest.

I very definitely believe that PMD logged the EUNs along with the VIN for warranty control purposes.

And perhaps in the not too distant past, those records still existed at least perhaps for some model years.

But I absolutely do not believe that PHS retains those records. At least not that they are aware of. Reason I say this, I cannot see the purpose for keeping such a list secret.

If such lists existed in the not too distant past, I'm guessing they were lost during the tug of war that went on between PHS and PMD.

For those of us that own '64s NOT built at the Pontiac Plant, we have the EUN anyway, similar to what your sample '67 Billing History Card reveals.

[Tom Vaught]

Not a fan of posting VIN numbers, on any website, as in today's world there are too many people at the DMVs (who for $50.00 would give you the name and address of the VIN/Car match).

Some very rare cars have been tracked down, using this method, by people who had access to the original GM VIN numbers (and then by using DMV records were able to find and pressure older owners to sell their valuable cars.

Tom Vaught

All that being said, if you were at one time the owner of said vehicle and were willing to pay the going price to get your car back, then go for it.
Big difference in the two scenerios except that you already know the VIN info.

[War eagle]

I am not a fan either of releasing VIN`s. Did someone say in another post that over at PHS that Tom`s fear of locating rare cars was being persued?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

When i said 20,000 : 1 odds - that was just a number from off the shoulder of how many 3x2 Manual cars i was thinking were built in 64.
May be high on that number , i wasn't using a fact sheet.

The casting date eliminates some of those. whatever the production total was.
But its still a Very Long Shot no matter what

And very worthwhile to give it the effort , by all means.
At minimum you will probably get prospective interests from folks who have no idea what their original EUN was.

PY member Johnta1 has his own Pontiac Info website.
He has a section for lost / found engines - and collects EUN data
You could also list it on his site.

www.wallaceracing.com

[chrisp]

Date available . thanks

[johnta1]

Lost Engine/Tranny Search

To make a submission:

Lost Engine/Tranny Submission


Engine Unit Search page:

EUN Search

[ron cozzo]

I'm going to keep calling it Motor Unit Number, just because... And I'm also a Mechanical Engineer and certainly know the difference.