[gtobob67]

Broke down my engine today. It's a .030 455, stump puller, SD 6X-4 ported heads. Compression 9.7. I've put 2500 miles on a total rebuild. I used JE forged pistons, eagle H beams. Had the rods sized and the rotating assy balanced. The list goes on and on. This is a street motor and not too heavily beat on. Haven't taken it over 5500 RPM. Not a hint of detonation that I can hear. 20 psi idle oil pressure heat soaked. Using 10w-40 Brad Penn Oil. Rod bearing clearance .002, mains .025. Using King rod bearings, FM mains. All my upper bearings are showing copper. The copper on most of them is only on the outboard side of the bearing. Number 8 rod bearing is the worst. Here are pictures of #8 and #4 upper bearings and #8 lower bearing. Crank looks perfect. All rod bearings are smooth. Can't feel anything with my fingernail. Where do I go from here?

[tom s]

Usually copper on the rod end is a sign of some detonation.Off to the side I guess could be a few diff reasons.See what the others think.tom

[tom s]

Factory crank or aftermarket?Tom

["QUICK-SILVER"]

What was the reason for tearing it down?

Clay

[gtobob67]

Factory crank. Tear down to modify lifter bore like Paul Carter does for noisy hydraulic roller lifters. Fully heat soaked the lifters were a bit too noisy.

[lust4speed]

I don't see any corresponding wear on the bottom bearing shell that would indicate a bent rod or improperly finished big end. Copper showing with so few miles sure seems to point to detonation.

[JSPONT]

Also pull a plug and look close, look down into the ceramic past the threads. Use a magnafying glass, look for little white spots on the plugs, that is a sign of detonation.
I always use the .001 per journal size. 2.2 journal I like the clearance .0022

Like Paul said though, check across the rod. If you have a dial bore gauge you can do it yourself.

[gtobob67]

[QUOTE=JSPONT;5970331]Also pull a plug and look close, look down into the ceramic past the threads. Use a magnafying glass, look for little white spots on the plugs, that is a sign of detonation.

No sign of detonation on the plugs

[JSPONT]

I have Eagle rods for years, multiple sizes, no issues. boosted with some decent h.p. I also have a good machine shop.

[Formulajones]

I didn't explain that clearly. Didn't mean to sound they are a problem. I've never had issues with them in service in any engine here. Just that before they are used I always have them checked and every set I've had always seems the bushings are too tight or the big end needs attention. Probably would have run just fine as is in some cases, but....

[shaker455]

That's not the best oil pressure for a new build and I was never a fan 10w-40 no matter the brand.
I run Valvoline VR-1 racing 20-50.
Are you running a melling MS-54 pump?
How was you engine timed and what carb & jetting?

[tom s]

JMO,with those tight clearance I would not run over 10-30.Tom

[tom s]

What lifters are you running?Tom

[tom s]

Also,do you have a record of the side clearance on all the rods?Make and type of rods?Pontiac J or BBC J?Tom

[gtobob67]

Oil pump is a Melling 10540. Carb is a 72 Buick 800 CFM 7042240 spec'd out by Cliff using his parts. AFR at idle is 13.0, cruise is around 13.6, full throttle is 12.0. Initial timing is set at 15 BTDC, 20 degrees mechanical all in by 3000 RPM. Dizzy done by Sun Tuned.
Lifters are Comp Cam 857S. Noisy at start up, which I expect, then quiets down. Car sits for long periods. A bit noisy when fully warm. Almost went hybrid with solids but decided last minute to try these. Seeing it's winter and I have plenty of free time I figured I'd try that mod to the lifter bore Paul Carter does. Insures the lifter sees oil when on the cam base circle.
Rods are Eagle 6.625 bushed 4340 H beams. Had them sized before installing them. Side clearance was .015 to .017 on all rods.
Detonation was my first impression when seeing the copper, but I never heard a hint of it. You can count on one hand the number of times I've run through the gears full throttle since the rebuild so needless to say I was shocked when I saw these bearings.

[chiphead]

Originally Posted by gtobob67

Oil pump is a Melling 10540. Carb is a 72 Buick 800 CFM 7042240 spec'd out by Cliff using his parts. AFR at idle is 13.0, cruise is around 13.6, full throttle is 12.0. Initial timing is set at 15 BTDC, 20 degrees mechanical all in by 3000 RPM. Dizzy done by Sun Tuned.
Lifters are Comp Cam 857S. Noisy at start up, which I expect, then quiets down. Car sits for long periods. A bit noisy when fully warm. Almost went hybrid with solids but decided last minute to try these. Seeing it's winter and I have plenty of free time I figured I'd try that mod to the lifter bore Paul Carter does. Insures the lifter sees oil when on the cam base circle.
Rods are Eagle 6.625 bushed 4340 H beams. Had them sized before installing them. Side clearance was .015 to .017 on all rods.
Detonation was my first impression when seeing the copper, but I never heard a hint of it. You can count on one hand the number of times I've run through the gears full throttle since the rebuild so needless to say I was shocked when I saw these bearings.

My .02:

Rod oil clearance slightly too tight or rod journal had eccentricity. Wear on lower halves is a clue. I had moderate detonation on my motor, and the bottom halves didn't look like that. Top halves looked worse. Your uppers are suspect for some silent detonation.
Rod side clearance on Eagles should be a bit wider, .020-.025"
At 9.7 CR with irons, I'm thinking timing should be 31-34* total mechanical timing in by 2800-3000 RPM.
Cruise AFR might be a scotch lean. How do plug look?
Any signs of oil control/oil burning issues? OIl control issues will increase risk of detonation. Detonation can happen during any moderate throttle, don't need WOT. Ever watched a datalog from a LS? Scary stuff.

What cam grind, what rear gear, what fuel, how heavy is car?

[gtobob67]

What cam grind, what rear gear, what fuel, how heavy is car?[/QUOTE]

Hydraulic roller 230-236 @.050 .590/.592 lift, 3.42 gears, 93 octane, around 3900 lbs I would imagine

What was the oil pressure readings usually?

Hot idle 850 RPM 20psi, 1300 RPM 30psi, 1700 RPM 40psi, 2200 RPM 50psi, above 3000 RPM around 58psi, just shy of 60psi on mechanical Stewart Warner Gauge off port next to distributor.

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

I say oil problem. What type of filter are you running? Oil pressure doesn't mean a whole lot without volume. Oil pressure at idle doesn't mean much either. What was the pressure at 3K, 4k?
I like around .020 on side clearance.
Any dark spots or discoloration on the rods themselves?

Napa Gold 1258 Oil Filter. No dark spots on the rods. I agree side clearance should be a tad larger. See above for oil pressure.

[shaker455]

Originally Posted by gtobob67

Oil pump is a Melling 10540. Carb is a 72 Buick 800 CFM 7042240
Rods are Eagle 6.625 bushed 4340 H beams. Had them sized before installing them. Side clearance was .015 to .017 on all rods.

Why were rods sized?
Your shop did not like the housing bore diameter?

[azbirds]

With all the work that was done to the engine can I guess that you tapped the front 1/2" oil plug holes? If those are too deep and the plug is screwed it all the way I have seen where they can restrict oil flow. one of mine was previously done and the plugs went in enough to close off almost half the hole. I machined off some of the back of those plugs and used a flashlight to see if they protruded into the holes that lead down to the mains.

[gtobob67]

I did tap those holes for the plugs but I made sure they were shallow enough so they wouldn't reach those oil holes.