[andrewT]

I've got a 488 filled to under freeze plugs (no crud in system was all cleaned out and have already drained coolant clean a few times)
11:1 kauffman d ports with a torker 2
New cardone water pump with divider plate
Champion 3 core radiator with volvo electric fans that pull a ton of air
Running vr1 racing oil
Timing is not retarded at all and heater core is not connected

Weather here in Canada right now is like a cool new York summer day. Breezy and not humid at all
Car is getting up to 200 water real fast. The fans have a switch installed to come on at 180 (switch is on the rad itself). Seems the fans don't kick on until my gauge reads about 220 and then drops only a little 'til they cut out at about 200. Temps keep yo-yoing. Oil temps hover at 200 then climb up to 240..this is after a 20 minute drive in low traffic stop and go driving. I put the electric fans because I was having the same issue with my factory fan setup. Driving and getting airflow vs dead stop idling doesn't seem to help lower temps. I know synthetic oil will help with the oil temps but the water is definitely nerve wracking here.

With an IR thermometer I read about 30 degrees cooler at the rad than at the thermostat. Temp sensor is on the crossover at the front of the intake. The car does not boil over. The coolant is 50/50 mix.. I've tried a 180 thermostat with a small by pass hole and a 195 with just a dimple and both do the same.

I'm out of ideas. The only thing I'm wondering is since my torker 2 has no water flow at the back of the heads (they're just plugged) is if sending the water from the back of the heads to the front of the intake will help with cooling somehow.

I'm going to put some pictures up if I can figure out how.. You guys with filled blocks that aren't having these issues baffle me!

Please help

[andrewT]

Here are some pictures.
Also transmission has a separate cooler.

I'm really wondering if bringin water from the back of heads to the front somehow will help with circulation and fix my issues
Thanks all!

[adynes]

Originally Posted by andrewT

Here are some pictures.
Also transmission has a separate cooler.

I'm really wondering if bringin water from the back of heads to the front somehow will help with circulation and fix my issues
Thanks all!

I've noticed that my factory gage isn't very accurate compared to the reading from my efi computer.

Also, in your third picture, is that your sensor mounted in the top of the passenger side ("cold side") tank of the radiator? If so, I think you need to mount it on the other side, the hot side of the radiator (or on the engine itself). Aside from being the wrong side of the radiator temperature-wise, the sensor located there might not even be submerged in coolant, as the coolant level gets pulled down significantly on the suction side. My coolant sensor for the efi (that controls the electric fans) is in the crossover.

[torqhead]

Originally Posted by adynes

I've noticed that my factory gage isn't very accurate compared to the reading from my efi computer.

Also, in your third picture, is that your sensor mounted in the top of the passenger side ("cold side") tank of the radiator? If so, I think you need to mount it on the other side, the hot side of the radiator (or on the engine itself). Aside from being the wrong side of the radiator temperature-wise, the sensor located there might not even be submerged in coolant, as the coolant level gets pulled down significantly on the suction side. My coolant sensor for the efi (that controls the electric fans) is in the crossover.

AndrewT, I saw your response to adynes and I think there was a misunderstanding. See pic I attached, is this the temp sensor for your electric fans? If so, that's more than likely your issue as it needs to be on the other side of the radiator.

[andrewT]

Originally Posted by torqhead

AndrewT, I saw your response to adynes and I think there was a misunderstanding. See pic I attached, is this the temp sensor for your electric fans? If so, that's more than likely your issue as it needs to be on the other side of the radiator.

yes it is...

thanks

[torqhead]

Originally Posted by andrewT

yes it is...

thanks

I wouldn't waste time doing anything else, change the sensor to the drivers side and make sure it's close to 1/4 or more down from the top of the radiator. If you use the pin type sensor that slides between the fins, just ensure you don't have the front tip of the sensor sticking out past the fins on the front/forward side of the radiator.

Although putting a sensor on the motor isn't a bad idea, the solution of putting the sensor in the radiator close to the input hose from the motor will make the fans turn on when the thermostat opens. It's a solid solution and works just as consistently as using a sensor in the motor.

I've got the flex-a-lite dual fan set up and ran it for 25 years on my GTO, port work, etc., (creates plenty of heat) and just recently replaced the fans with the same thing as one of the motors had failed. I've done this type of setup on many cars and it's worked flawlessly on both the stock radiators as well as the aluminum ones.

[Big Bear]

Swapped the copper core rad in my TA for a Cold Case aluminum hoping for better cooling on the highway or in traffic with the AC on. Ended up gaining heat faster and having to use heater to control it from over heating. Noticed coolant leaking from the overflow tube below the rad cap. The aluminum tube is smaller diameter and the original hose didnt fit tight so it leaked coolant and also sucked in air on recovery. I did hear a gurgling sound. Changed to a heavy wall hose to seal better and after a couple of heat cool cycles and the air is out of the system it stays at 180.

[chrisp]

What type of impeller is on the pump & did you clearance the divider plate ?

[andrewT]

Originally Posted by chrisp

What type of impeller is on the pump & did you clearance the divider plate ?

I honestly can't remember. This has been a slow project. I did not clearance the plate though
Excuse my ignorance but could that alone be causing heat rise as high and quick as this?

[Formulajones]

You said your temp sensor for the fans is on the radiator correct?

It's not one of those probes you stick in the fins is it? We just experimented with one of those controllers. While the adjustable rheostat is nice, we found using the radiator as a heat source for the switch was very inconsistent and wouldn't kick the fans on until the engine was pretty darn hot. It got to a point we turned the rheostat nearly all the way down but then it would kick the fans on and never shut down. I theorized I think it has to do with the ambient air flow coming across the radiator combined with hot under hood temps causing that temp probe to do wonky things. When we were moving down the road the fans wouldn't even work at all as the engine temp creeped. Too much cool outside air moving through keeping the probe cold.

Once we switched it over to a switch that screwed to the engine and controlled the fans that way, suddenly they worked as intended, turned on and off at the temps we wanted and now keeps the engine cooled properly.

Just based on that experience, I'll never use a controller again that relies on the radiator temps to control the fans. Much more accurate to use a temp sender in the head or intake manifold. Something to think about and easy/cheap to try.

[andrewT]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

You said your temp sensor for the fans is on the radiator correct?

It's not one of those probes you stick in the fins is it? We just experimented with one of those controllers. While the adjustable rheostat is nice, we found using the radiator as a heat source for the switch was very inconsistent and wouldn't kick the fans on until the engine was pretty darn hot. It got to a point we turned the rheostat nearly all the way down but then it would kick the fans on and never shut down. I theorized I think it has to do with the ambient air flow coming across the radiator combined with hot under hood temps causing that temp probe to do wonky things. When we were moving down the road the fans wouldn't even work at all as the engine temp creeped. Too much cool outside air moving through keeping the probe cold.

Once we switched it over to a switch that screwed to the engine and controlled the fans that way, suddenly they worked as intended, turned on and off at the temps we wanted and now keeps the engine cooled properly.

Just based on that experience, I'll never use a controller again that relies on the radiator temps to control the fans. Much more accurate to use a temp sender in the head or intake manifold. Something to think about and easy/cheap to try.

This literally sounds exactly like what I'm having an issue with
Do you know what brand probe you put on the intake/engine

The only ones I could find that fit the teeny thread of my rad was a cheap offshore one that I don't trust much anyway

[Formulajones]

The one we used in the engine are just the simple pipe thread temp senders that are all over ebay, and cost ~$20 We actually bought 3 of them with different temp ratings to experiment with. Just pick one with a fan on/off rating your happy with. They aren't exact and seem to vary 5 degrees or so but not a big deal.

For what it's worth, they came from different suppliers, one is a different name brand, but they all look identical holding them in your hand. So I suspect they are made at the same place.

[TedRamAirII]

I think the electric fans/shrouds used actually restrict air flow, through the core. Above 45 mph, a fan isnt really needed.

[JUDGE3]

my well known engine builder filled my block same as yours and it overheated everytime for awhile really had me worried. he said to "burp" the system repeatedly at hose connections (carefully of course) and it finally went away completely and ran nice and cool at 175. apparently sometimes block fill can trap air in spots.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by andrewT

I honestly can't remember. This has been a slow project. I did not clearance the plate though
Excuse my ignorance but could that alone be causing heat rise as high and quick as this?

Could be , when the T-stat is open are you seeing a good flow through the rad when cap is off ?

[ta man]

I think the next step is to confirm your temp gauge is accurate. Take it one step at a time. It is puzzling on these forums that there are more cooling issues with electric fans and new rads vs good factory pieces.

[andrewT]

Originally Posted by ta man

I think the next step is to confirm your temp gauge is accurate. Take it one step at a time. It is puzzling on these forums that there are more cooling issues with electric fans and new rads vs good factory pieces.

You're right

But I had a factory rad and fan in it last year and it was even worse!
Just didn't get to drive the car long enough before tear down to diagnose the problem. But ya if the factory stuff works, then if it ain't broke don't fix it!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by ta man

It is puzzling on these forums that there are more cooling issues with electric fans and new rads vs good factory pieces.

Isn't it though? Dad's been going through the same thing with his for a couple months now. His 571 ran cooler and more consistent temperatures with the stock shroud and clutch fan using a 25 year old 4 core copper radiator than it does now with a fancy thick 2 core aluminum with 1 1/4" cores and dual electric fans.

We've made a bunch of changes to at least get the engine temps more consistent and slightly cooler, but I think the fans still run a little too much for my liking, especially after a good drive and heat soaking. It does clean up the engine bay and free up some HP, I'll give it that. But I expected better cooling and consistency.

[JSPONT]

I dropped 15 degrees no other change when I clearance the pump

[Cliff R]

"What type of impeller is on the pump & did you clearance the divider plate ?"

+2

Remove the water pump and see if it has a stamped steel impeller on it. If so get one with a cast impeller instead. That will typically knock 20-30 degrees running temps right out of one of these engines.......Cliff